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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Add F11 as full screen shortcut
From:       Peter <gostelow () global ! co ! za>
Date:       2009-07-07 2:22:19
Message-ID: 200907070422.38859.gostelow () global ! co ! za
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On Monday 06 July 2009 22:02, Jud Craft wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Peter<gostelow@global.co.za> wrote:
> > I have no issue with KDE providing default consistency, but with KDE's
> > attempts to use its default shortcuts to provide consistency among
> > _apps_.
>
> If you like "default consistency", you should be fine with consistent
> default shortcuts.

I am. KDE defaults to ctrl-shift-f for fullscreen. Consistent default.

> Your statement requires further logic, because as 
> provided, you do not make sense.

Adding F11, F12, F16, ctrl-shift-b, ctrl-shift-c, ... to KDE's fullscreen, 
just because apps use them, we'll find some app uses F12 for fullscreen, but 
ctrl-shift-b for something else. Now we have a short-cut conflict in KDE 
and/or run out of short-cuts. All apps still have their same inconsistent 
default. In the long run, this approach doesn't benefit users.

>
> > User configuration provides accessibilty, useability, and consistency
> > among apps. Not one other suggestion is able to do the same.
>
> "User configuration" -- "The ability for a user to configure his
> computer" -- does not create accessibility.

If a function is wired to the ui, it is accessible, otherwise it is 
inaccessible. The configuration allows the user to wire every function to the 
ui, so it provides accessibility.

The configuration allows functions to be wired to any short-cut, so users can 
select the one they prefer and make it useable.

When configuring different apps, the user can select the same short-cut for 
the same, or similar, function, so now short-cuts work consistently for all 
apps.

In short, 'can do' == accessible, 'prefer' == useable, 'same for all' == 
consistent.

>
> It *allows* the possibility of accessibility.  It does not help create
> it -- in fact, it's a horrible way to encourage accessibility and
> consistency.  It is more likely to achieve the opposite -- everyone
> doing their own thing.

If you're referring to users doing their own thing, that is exactly what 
configurations are for.

>
> > KDE cannot substitute default shortcuts for
> > user configuration and sooner, or later, it will be unable to do so.
>
> KDE, in fact, SHOULD have some influence to dictate common defaults to
> developers.

We're discussing adding app default short-cuts (F11) to KDE's default 
(ctrl-shift-f). You're arguing the reverse, that the app default (F11) should 
be changed to KDE's default (ctrl-shift-f). I'm in the middle, let KDE set 
global defaults (ctrl-shift-f), developers set app defaults (F11), and users 
do their own thing (ctrl-shift-f and/or F11, or ...).

Regards,

Peter
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