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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Keyboard shortcuts dialog
From:       Andreas Pakulat <apaku () gmx ! de>
Date:       2009-03-06 9:06:43
Message-ID: 20090306090643.GC25732 () barmbek
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On 06.03.09 09:05:59, Maciej Pilichowski wrote:
> On Thursday 05 March 2009 23:25:50 Andreas Pakulat wrote:
> > If you want space between those buttons make the dialog larger.
> 
> ...every time?

If the dialog doesn't store its size, then yes. Of course you could file
a feature wish for the dialog storing its size.
 
> > Sorry but I fail to see the point. At least here I have a nice
> > space between reset to defaults and print, which is about as wide
> > as reset to defaults itself. The buttons themselves have space
> > around them.
> 
> But still there a buttons mixed -- important ones, used all the time 
> and buttons which are rarely used (by me -- never) in the same place, 
> as their importance would be the same.
> 
> Andreas, I ask you this -- do you really think the frequency of 
> using "cancel" in this dialog is the same (comparable at least) with 
> button "print"?

Its not used frequently, but at least for Print its very important that
its visible on the first page as its simply not discoverable if its on
some other tab. Its not used as often as the editor, but its a very
important button IMHO to learn about shortcuts in a new application.

And having the Print button in the widget area doesn't quite work well,
I've tried out various combinations when I wrote the support for
printing.

And in general the order of buttons on the bottom is "dictated" by
kdelibs, the code that uses the dialog-class cannot decide where to put
each button, it can only decide which ones to show. And that order has
(AFAIK) been determined by the usability folk.

> > > look at the combobox which contain only two items (bug on itself,
> > > but minor). Separate tab would solve this by design.
> >
> > Here the combobox has 1 item, because by default there's only 1
> > scheme - the default scheme. Or are you talking about the more
> > actions one?
> 
> More actions, sorry for not being specific. It nested in really ugly 
> way -- details (it is not details at all, it is scheme) -> more 
> actions. Lot of clicking, questionable savings.

So you suggest to remove the drop-down and have another normal button in
that list?

> > You know, I hate Ui's that have spaces and margins just to have
> > spaces and margins. A ui should have as little spaces/margins as
> > possible, but enough to easily separate the widgets. And at least
> > to my eyes the shortcut dialog as it is right now fits that quite
> > well, with and without the details shown.
> 
> I agree with you -- but at the same time I opt for making difference 
> of buttons of different importance. And different kinds of buttons 
> need some visual separation, because it is not about being ugly, but 
> about being informative -- space plays here the role of information.

Yes, but the order of the buttons on the bottom cannot be changed easily
as it would affect _all_ dialogs in kde.

Andreas 

-- 
Abandon the search for Truth; settle for a good fantasy.
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