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List: kde-usability
Subject: Re: KDE 4.2 Toolbars
From: "Jos Poortvliet" <jospoortvliet () gmail ! com>
Date: 2008-11-14 10:21:21
Message-ID: 5847e5cf0811140221i6950c562gdd4569a4a006c981 () mail ! gmail ! com
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On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 9:35 AM, Benno Dielmann <lists@benno-dielmann.de>wrote:
> On Friday 14 November 2008 05:26:50 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> | On Thursday 13 November 2008, Benno Dielmann wrote:
> | > What makes a big difference IMHO is what happens if a window is smaller
> | > than it's toolbar(s) need. See the attached screenshot for an
> example(*).
> |
> | and i ask, "why is cut, copy and paste in that toolbar?"
>
> Because the kmail developers put them there (the screenshot is of the kmail
> editor window)? You are right, I could live very well without these as
> toolbar
> items; I use shortcuts anyway. But we are talking about sensible defaults
> here...
>
> Oh, I see, kwrite doesn't have these tools in the toolbar any more...
>
> Is this a new KDE usability strategy to put as few as possible into the
> toolbars? On the other hand, I thought menus were considered not-so-good
> (that's why we got rid of the old style K-menu)...
it's chosing between bad and horrible. A clean toolbar with only the options
that really matter helps many users. With text underneath as is default in
KDE 4, the toolbars need to be cleaned up compared to KDE 3. I think that
was a great move...
>
>
> This reminds me of a friend of mine. I tried to switch her over to Linux
> (and
> failed...). One time she called me and wanted to know how to print a pdf
> document. She had it opened in okular and missed a print button... All her
> windows programs had one (Word, Acrobat Reader, ...) so she never had to
> find
> out where print usually is located in menus.
Funny, this again shows how different people are. I often see collegues use
the menu for stuff which clearly is in the toolbar - file open, save,
print... The print button in the toolbars in MS Office (dunno about acrobat)
aren't a great solution for many users, btw, as they print immediately
instead of showing the dialog. In many office environments you'd often have
to choose the right printer first or change other properties so that doesn't
work very well.
>
>
> Well, I just hope KDE application developers won't take important items out
> of
> their application's toolbars just because they get too wide with a default
> text-alongside-icons.
>
> And, regardless whether there are few or many toolbar icons, with text-
> alongside-icons, the toolbar-gets-truncated case I described in the mail
> you
> answered to is bound to happen much more often.
True, esp if you use windows non-maximized. The solution aaron proposed, to
make the toolbar use the text smarter, would rock.
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Benno.
> _______________________________________________
> kde-usability mailing list
> kde-usability@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 9:35 AM, Benno Dielmann <span \
dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lists@benno-dielmann.de">lists@benno-dielmann.de</a>></span> \
wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, \
204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div class="Ih2E3d">On Friday \
14 November 2008 05:26:50 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:<br> | On Thursday 13 November 2008, \
Benno Dielmann wrote:<br> | > What makes a big difference IMHO is what happens if \
a window is smaller<br> | > than it's toolbar(s) need. See the attached \
screenshot for an example(*).<br> |<br>
> and i ask, "why is cut, copy and paste in that toolbar?"<br>
<br>
</div>Because the kmail developers put them there (the screenshot is of the kmail<br>
editor window)? You are right, I could live very well without these as toolbar<br>
items; I use shortcuts anyway. But we are talking about sensible defaults<br>
here...<br>
<br>
Oh, I see, kwrite doesn't have these tools in the toolbar any more...<br>
<br>
Is this a new KDE usability strategy to put as few as possible into the<br>
toolbars? On the other hand, I thought menus were considered not-so-good<br>
(that's why we got rid of the old style K-menu)...</blockquote><div><br>it's \
chosing between bad and horrible. A clean toolbar with only the options that really \
matter helps many users. With text underneath as is default in KDE 4, the toolbars \
need to be cleaned up compared to KDE 3. I think that was a great move... <br> \
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, \
204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br> <br>
This reminds me of a friend of mine. I tried to switch her over to Linux (and<br>
failed...). One time she called me and wanted to know how to print a pdf<br>
document. She had it opened in okular and missed a print button... All her<br>
windows programs had one (Word, Acrobat Reader, ...) so she never had to find<br>
out where print usually is located in menus.</blockquote><div><br>Funny, this again \
shows how different people are. I often see collegues use the menu for stuff which \
clearly is in the toolbar - file open, save, print... The print button in the \
toolbars in MS Office (dunno about acrobat) aren't a great solution for many \
users, btw, as they print immediately instead of showing the dialog. In many office \
environments you'd often have to choose the right printer first or change other \
properties so that doesn't work very well.<br> </div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt \
0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br> <br>
Well, I just hope KDE application developers won't take important items out \
of<br> their application's toolbars just because they get too wide with a \
default<br> text-alongside-icons.<br>
<br>
And, regardless whether there are few or many toolbar icons, with text-<br>
alongside-icons, the toolbar-gets-truncated case I described in the mail you<br>
answered to is bound to happen much more often.</blockquote><div><br>True, esp if you \
use windows non-maximized. The solution aaron proposed, to make the toolbar use the \
text smarter, would rock. <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; \
padding-left: 1ex;"> <br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Benno.<br>
</font><div><div></div><div \
class="Wj3C7c">_______________________________________________<br> kde-usability \
mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:kde-usability@kde.org">kde-usability@kde.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability</a><br> \
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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