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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: KDE improvement suggestions
From:       Uno Engborg <uno () webworks ! se>
Date:       2005-02-25 2:04:36
Message-ID: 421E87B4.3040008 () webworks ! se
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Luke Chatburn wrote:

>
>>Let it work like in windows.  There you have a simple move action when 
>>dragging icons with the left button, and get a menu much like
>>the one you currently get in KDE when you drag things by the right 
>>button. But for that to work the ordinary rmb menu have to pop
>>up on mouse up instead of mouse down.  That way newbies could move 
>>thing  (the most common drag action)  without being disturbed
>>by menus popping up all the time.  Naturally the key modifiers could 
>>remain as they are today as an option to advanced users.
>>    
>>
>
>To be honest, I've been working with Windows for more than ten years and
>never knew about right-dragging until the other month. I'm doing a PhD in
>Computer Science, and I didn't know. It's never expressed anywhere, the
>majority of the user base doesn't know about it, and it is completely hidden
>functionality. It wouldn't be so bad, but there are no other instances of
>right-dragging anywhere in Windows or any other program that I've ever used,
>so the thought to try and do it never occurred. Everyone I have ever known
>has used modifier key combos or Cut/Copy - Paste functions instead.
>
>To be honest, all users I have ever introduced to KDE have dragged a file,
>seen the context menu on drop and said "Oh! That's useful!". I've never
>heard a user say a negative thing about it, and it seems to be 'the way it
>should be done'.
>
>Please don't change it... It really is perfect.
>
>  
>
Yes, it looks good at first. But this is deceptive.

The, "this is useful" comment is quite typical for an experienced users 
that think this would be good for newbies.
Not something they actually would like to use themselves. If they do, 
they will do better than
a newbie as they unlike newbies usually know how to expand selections 
and therefore more seldom is
exposed to the menu.

If you get that get that question once in a while its not such a big 
thing. But if you get it every time you try to move
something its different. As I said try sort a couple of images from your 
digital camera into various folders without
using modifyer keys, and you will get the point.

Unlike you, I have heard quite a lot of users complain about this. Some 
of them actually make a living on
usability.

The problem is that this breaks the natural flow of work. This is an 
absolute no no.

You ask a question with four alternatives, where two of the alternatives 
is going to be selected in less than
1% of the times and the of the two remainging alternatives move will 
dominate heavily. This means that
you impose the cognitive load of selecting from 4 alternatives when, 
there in reality only is at best two alternatives.
In such cases it is better not to ask and just perform the dominating 
task and fix the others elsewhere.

The fact that you need a cancel button on the drop target menu, but not 
on any other menus in KDE
should raise some red flags that this is not entirely natural to the 
users. In fact this makes it a new
kind of userinteface component more related to dialogs than to menus, 
and I don't think its a coinsidens
that it doesn't appear in any other toolkets.

Somehow, Windows, MacOS, and Gnome users seem to do well without this, 
and so could KDE. In fact
it might even do better, since this is something that works similar on 
all other DEs and as such users could
make more use of previous experiences.  Cut&Paste, drag&drop is to a DE 
like what a steering wheel and
the breaks and accellerator is to a car. It is an advantage if they 
behave similar regardless of what brand
or model you use.

If we really must keep this menu, please make it optional, that way it 
will be much easier to research the feature.
The feature is allready optional in kmail, why not make it optional in 
konqueror as well.

Regardless if we make keep the droptarget menu as it is, remove it, or 
make it optional, there need to
be some way of creating links that is not hidden. As it is now the only 
way to create a link is to actually
drag&drop a file. You can't navigate through the menus and find a menu 
option that does it. The best
place for it would probably be the edit menu.

As you point out, the alternative with rmb  drag&drop is just as hidden 
as the current behavior. I meant it as a
a shortcut for advanced users, or users that like the current behavior, 
if the left button drag is changed
to move only operation with no menu.

No, the current state is far from perfect.

Regards
Uno Engborg
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