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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Systray Usability
From:       Andras Mantia <amantia () kde ! org>
Date:       2005-02-06 20:06:51
Message-ID: 20050206200443.415416BAAF () smtp ! zappmobile ! ro
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Aaron J. Seigo wrote:

> On Sunday 06 February 2005 03:35, Andras Mantia wrote:
>> 1) when no system tray is available/shown, the system tray applications
>> should appear on the taskbar. Reasoning: the above issue.
> 
> true enough; until you don't have a taskbar available. there really needs
> to be some "automatically appearing if it isn't already there" area.

If there is no taskbar they should be reachable at least with ALT-TAB
switching.

> 
>> 2) when the application's main window is closed the application should
>> quit, not remain running in the background/system tray. Reasoning:
>> consistency. Closing the main window closes the application. Period.
> 
> i'm sorry, but this is absolutely incorrect. i've explained in detail why
> this is so.

I will explain a little down what thoughts I have about your explanation.

> 
>> 3) applications (not-deamon like ones) wanting to go to the system tray
>> should offer a setting to minimize to the tray (*if* available) instead
>> of the taskbar.
> 
> again, this confuses "windows" with "system try icon" ... this is not how
> most people perceive the stuff they see on the screen. you are thinking
> like a good programmer, not an average user.

Ok, I read the explanation in the mail you sent earlier once again, and I
certainly understood only because I really tried to understand the
reasoning behind the current behavior. And I'd say altough it has some
logic, it's unexpected for a general user. You are right about the fact
that people who bring up the mainwindow associated with a system tray icon
expect that when they close the window, the app should not quit. This is
true for all the system tray icons (and applications that are behind them)
that are some kind of deamon like apps, and for such apps the window that
is shown is usually a configuration window or a new application started
(KOrganizer for the alarm daemon for example). I agree that it's better to
not remove the application from the system tray when the window is closed.
 But this is the ideal situation, when only those applications are going to
the tray that are deamon like. The reality is different, as there are
others which a "real" application, like the on I'm using right now (KNode),
and they use the system tray like a taskbar. For such applications it's
very confusing that they do not quit once the window is closed. I don't
know why they prefer the system tray, but one reason might be the actions
in the tray menu, the other can be that it doesn't use space in the taskbar
(might be important for apps that are always running in the background,
like a music player). But those apps should then really do what I wrote:
*minimize* themselves to the tray instead of the taskbar, not remain in the
tray when the user closes the window. 
 I'm not familiar with the code in this area, so I'm asking where this "go
to system tray when closing" comes from? It should be replaced/extended
with the possibility to go to the tray when minimize is pressed and the
second group of the applications should use the later possibility.

Andras

-- 
Quanta Plus developer - http://quanta.sourceforge.net
K Desktop Environment - http://www.kde.org

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