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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Allocating a virtual desktop automatically [was: thoughts on
From:       Maurizio Colucci <seguso.forever () tin ! it>
Date:       2004-09-01 14:55:08
Message-ID: 200409011655.08156.seguso.forever () tin ! it
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On Wednesday 01 September 2004 16:24, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote:
> On Tuesday 31 August 2004 20:51, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > On Tuesday 31 August 2004 04:55, Maurizio Colucci wrote:
> > > However, as a last resort, we could check if the windows overlap! If
> > > they do, then probably they are not meant to be viewed together, so we
> > > put them in the taskbar. If they don't, we group them in the same
> > > taskbar button. Not bad.
> >
> > except that overlapping doesn't mean much. small displays, complex apps,
> > etc all create situations in which windows overlap. gimp is a great
> > example of an app where i often get overlapping windows (e.g. the brushes
> > and the layers windows) even though they belong together. so the
> > distinction you are making is completely artificial and not consistent.
> > i'm not sure how users would react to this in practice ....
>
> I agree. It won't work
>
> > > > the only thing i'd add here is what about the use case where you wish
> > > > to use the taskbar to switch to one of the non-document gimp windows?
> > > > this is a fairly common case because they get hidden behind other
> > > > windows fairly easily.
> > >
> > > No problem here. As we said, the new taskbar would only show one "gimp"
> > > button. But as soon as you click the button, ALL THREE gimp windows are
> > > brought on top. (this is automatic if kde has created a virtual desktop
> > > for them, otherwise we just put the necessary logic in the taskbar
> > > applet to bring all 3 on top).
> >
> > again, this doesn't work if the windows overlap.
> >
> > someone mentioned macOS X does things similar to this and i have to say
> > that MacOS's handling of multiwindow apps is probably THE most annoying
> > thing about MacOS. this is one reason everyone creams over expose on the
> > mac platform: there simply is no other useful window selection system
> > because their app-centric method no longer makes sense in 2004.
>
> I mentioned it.
>
> IMHO the problems with macos that need exposé is the lack of a taskbar. The
> docker is cool and beauty, but as you said you can't (i guess) select a
> specific window from Firefox, for example.   But we're not suggesting
> removing the taskbar, it's more some facility to help bring things all
> together.
>
> I don't want my taskbar to looks like:
> [ gimp - brushes ][ gimp - gradients ][ gimp - img1 ][ gimp - img2]
>
> but
> [ gimp - toolboxes group ][ gimp - img1 ][ gimp - img2 ]

Wouldn't

 [gimp-img1]   [gimp-img2]

be enough? It is more document oriented.

More in general: yes, I was wrong. I was trying to solve the problem of the 
taskbar not grouping enough (e.g. gimp toolwindows), and I proposed a 
non-solution where the taskbar would have grouped too much (e.g. two totally 
unrelated konqueror windows, two unrelated gimp pictures). 

To fix that, first I proposed for the taskbar to check overlapping windows. 
This would somewhat work, but a better solution is make the taskbar aware of 
the windowType, not showing the utility windows in the taskbar, and 
automatically bringing the utility windows on top when needed. This is now 
implemented in my taskbar and it works.

Also, we should file a bug in individual applications when they don't use the 
windowType in a sensible way. Unfortunately, just today someone tried to ask 
the gimp developers to set their default to a more sensible way, and the 
request was ridiculized:

http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=151591

-- 
Maurizio Colucci
http://logicaldesktop.sourceforge.net
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