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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: misuse/abuse of popup windows - a real-life example
From:       Sébastien_Laoût "\[temporar\]" <les83plus () free ! fr>
Date:       2004-09-01 14:46:34
Message-ID: 1094046636.3128.33.camel () localhost ! localdomain
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Le mer 01/09/2004 à 09:56, Allan Fields a écrit :
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 09:41:34PM +0200, G?rard Delafond wrote:
> > I never understood messages like "You cannot perform this operation - OK".
> > What other choice do I have ? Why does it need a validation ?
> > I am very happy if KDE project goes hunting such boxes.
> 
> Exactly.  There is no reason to display messages in this inefficient
> manner, especially if the information is routine, of low urgency
> or periodic in nature.

I've found another place where this style of "OK Computer" (I like this
expression :-) ) is also used.

It's in KWrite/Kate/...
When you search a word and there is no anymore occurence, this dialog
"End of document reached.
 Continue from begin?
 [Continue] [Stop]"
is shown.
When they was introduced, I was not happy (perhapse I'm alone, but they
appear so frenquetly), but now I'm used to them, even if I dislike them.

You have to move your hand from the [F3] key to [Return] to continue
from begin or to [Escape] to cancel. Quite frustrating.

I suggest when user press [F3] (or "Find Next") a KPassivePopup is shown
(on a place the user isn't annoyed of it, ie. outside the textarea if
possible) that say
"End of document reached.
 Use 'Find Next (F3)' to continue from begin."
Then the [F3] has no other effect than display the message.
User can decide to type text in the area (equivalent to [Stop]) OR to
continue by pressing [F3] another time (the popup is then closed).

Summary:
Ctrl+F ; Find:"foo" ; [Find]/Return
 -> first occurence of "foo" is hilighted
F3
 -> next  occurence of "foo" is hilighted
F3
 -> No other occurence, show the non-intrusive popup
F3
 -> Restart from the begin
 -> And close the passive popup

The dialog is not intrusive anymore and user isn't obligated to press
[Stop], and he also can press [F3] two times quickly.
That's a good deal, I think.

The same can apply (and better) to
"The searched string 'foo' hasn't been found
 [OK]"
dialog. A "passive popup" can be shown: user haven't to validate he has
read the message.

What do you think about that?

I propose the general sentence:
"Users haven't (and dislike) to be interupted in his workflow.
 Informational message boxes with only an [OK] button can generaly be
 replaced by a KPassivePopup, disappearing after a click or few time"

I assume message boxes with only an [OK] button are for information.
I don't see any exceptions for the moment.
And, as what I proposed to KWrite, this also can be extended to other
message boxes with two buttons. But I suspect the KWrite find thing to
be quite exceptional.
Hum... It's just because "it inform the user AND offer quick controls".
So, this dialog is an [OK] with extended.
The main thing is that it INFORM the user.
Informations haven't to be validated, as Allan well said.

Two problems I can see:
- Where to place the popup? Sometimes it can be difficult to place it.
  For maximized windows it can be near to the taskbar entry
  For non-maximized ones, the taskbar entry can be far of the window
  Then, try to make it appears near to the window, outside of it if
  possible (sticked to the border).
->Then, a keyboard shortcut can be added to close every remaining
  PassivePopups. So, if the popup is behind the text area, pressing
  Escape would allow to close it: user can continue to type text without
  using the mouse (what actual messageBoxes allow).
- For long texts, the popup can disappear when the user is reading it.
  Should the popup disappear automatically?
  Yes, because if they requiere a click they are the same (but sort of
  "assyncronous") as dialogs.
  Or they can dissapear when user act (click somewhere else, press
  keys...)

--

Sébastien Laoût.


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