'Re: Configuration as themes'

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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Configuration as themes
From:       "Jamethiel Knorth" <jamethknorth () hotmail ! com>
Date:       2004-02-21 15:45:09
Message-ID: BAY7-F59cOHuICu0L880001e161 () hotmail ! com
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Now, and I know people are taking this into account, I want to make sure we 
are careful to not make KDE a themed-only system. The current setup is 
highly and immediately configurable and I LIKE that. However much people 
rave about OS-X, I hate using it because I don't like its default feel and 
have trouble making it do what I want. Adding themes can be good, but we 
can't lose what KDE already has going for it. Also, remember that KDE can't 
be everything to everyone, and power-users are a valid portion of the 
market.

Having said all that, there are a lot of good ideas here. I like the idea of 
having a central theming panel and avoiding much in the way of theming 
options on any individual modules. If the central panel has theme-options 
for every section of KDE (and hopefully a decent preview of it all), that 
will avoid most of the rest.

As for placing the themes themselves on each page, would it work as a 
combo-box along the bottom, in the same row as 'Apply' and 'Reset'? Put 
'Theme: [combo-box]' on the opposite side, having it say either 'Custom' or 
'Modified [original theme]' when edited, or the current them when unedited. 
'Save Theme...' would likely need to be beside it for people to see it, 
although that uses a ton of space. Possibly just a button with a disk-icon 
would work (I don't think that saving themes is vitally important, so if 
someone misses it, that won't kill them).

Also, that separates the theming from the module and puts it into the 
control center. Then, it doesn't matter if the module-writer puts in support 
for theming, KDE just supports theming by default.

The biggest issue I see is that there is little space remaining down there. 
As I recall (and I may be incorrect, as I cannot check right now) the bottom 
bar looks like this

[ help ] [ defaults ] - - - - - - - - spacer - - - - - - - - [ apply ] [ 
reset ]

I don't want to loose any of those options, so this is my suggestion

[ help ] Theme: [ theme combo-box ] - - spacer - - [ apply ] [ reset ]

Put a theme into everything as 'Defaults' so that everyone can get back to 
that. It's still a little more cramped than the current layout, but it all 
fits, and has a whole lot of power.

(Okay, I'm replaying to a whole lot of people at once, because I whole lot 
of people are arguing the same point.)

>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:04:13 +0000
>From: Rui Malheiro <rmalheiro@6mil.pt>
>Jamethiel Knorth wrote:
>
> > I do not like the method of having the themes existing for most every
> > section (as was demonstrated in a screen-shot of a new fonts dialog).
> > It makes the control center ENORMOUSLY more complex, in that there are
> > simply too many options. As there is already a problem with too many
> > options, I think that should be avoided.
>
>I agree that extending all/most/many control panels to include theme
>selection would increase the complexity. Too many options is often
>confusing. What I think would be a better aproach, if configuration
>themes would be added to KDE, is to expand/redesign the theme control
>panel (I know there is going to be a new theme panel, but I haven't seen
>what it's going to be like) and include a "Use theme" button on every 
>panel.
>
>Let me explain this better. A user wants to configure the look and
>config on kicker and other desktop panels. She plays around with the
>kicker panel but isn't realy happy with the results or can't get to
>configure things the way she wants. She clicks on "Use theme" and is
>greated by a theme selector window that displays a selection of themes
>preferably with a small screenshot of what the kicker will look like
>with that theme. She can then choose to use the whole theme or just the
>kicker settings. My idea is not to have separate themes for each
>configuration aspect, but to design themes (and the theme selection
>application) in a way that allows the user to "extract" only the aspects
>of the theme she is interested on. The same for fonts, icons, mouse
>behavior, file-manager, desktop, whatever...
>
>Let's supose I like the kicker settings of theme "Alpha", the  iconset
>of theme "Beta" and the window decoration of theme "Omega". On each
>relevant panel I could click on the "Use theme" button, browse the
>previews and "build" my own theme from the subsets of the others.
>
>Of course this implies some advanced knowledge of KDE. A news user would
>only select a whole theme from the theme selection aplication and apply
>it to all aspects of his configuration. Then as he starts to find what
>he likes/dislikes, maybe from trying different themes, he can build his
>own preferences, without having to know what all those other options he
>doesn't realy care about.

>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:03:34 +0100
>From: Luciano Montanaro <luciano.montanaro@consulenti.fastweb.it>

[snip]

>Well, but if (using my hacked fonts panel as an example) the panel were
>modified to let the user choose one of a number of font configurations as
>the principal mode, with a preview in the style of the color panel as
>the main interface, and it offered a way to edit and save the current theme
>as an option, the choice for the user would be easier on a first level (try
>out one of a few font settings until a satisfying one is found), and yet
>it would be possible to add more options (e.g. the font to use for tabs and
>group boxes could be customized, given some support in the themes).
>
>Personally I like to use similar fonts on the whole interface, but with
>size/weight/slant variations.
>
>Luciano

>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:22:25 +0000
>From: Tom Chance <lists@tomchance.org.uk>

[snip]

>How about this: all those things that a user is unlikely to ever change 
>once
>they've configured KDE for the first time, and that aren't to move into
>KAdmin, are handled by a theme manager.
>
>Upon opening it, you are presented by default with the current theme, and 
>the
>option to configure the various aspects (background, fonts, windec, panel,
>etc). All theme options in the invidual KCMs are removed, and so if you 
>want
>to save a new theme only with different fonts, you simply save it as 
>another
>theme.
>
>So the first emphasis is on the overall theme of the desktop, and secondly 
>on
>tweaking its many aspects.
>
>The disadvantage of this system is that you make it slightly more 
>complicated
>to only tweak one little thing. The advantages are that you make it much 
>less
>frightening for first time users, and much easier to manage themes across 
>the
>desktop.
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Tom

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