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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: KMenuEdit vs. direct manipulation [was: Re: RMB - once again]
From:       Sander Devrieze <s.devrieze () pandora ! be>
Date:       2003-08-12 16:21:05
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Op dinsdag 12 augustus 2003 15:38, schreef Sébastien Laoût:
> > > No, but I see 2 kind of people I know who use MS Windows: some people
> > > know this functionality and use it. Others don't know it and don't
> > > use it. The difference between these groups is that the first is much
> > > smaller and have much more experience with computers than the second.
> > > Of course this is only with people I know, but I think this will be
> > > the same if you do some tests with a lot more people.
>
> MS Windows isn't the same OS than Linux+KDE(orGNOME) : they have
> different needs (see my axplains below).
>
> > So, the group using direct manipulation of the KMenu probably likes it
> > and the other group ignores the feature.
>
> When I've migrated from Windows to Linux, I've been frustrated to not
> can drag and drop any desktop icons to the KMenu and any KMenu entry to
> another KMenu place.
> And start kmenuedit for a simple reordering is time useless. But : it
> isn't often that peoples do that, so it isn't grave.

idd, and that is what I want to say: The start menu of windows is just bad 
organised and there is no standardisation so that this menu will look very 
ugly after you installed some applications. Because of this it will becomes a 
*daily task* for users to reorganize their menu. Because it's a daily task 
it's interesting to have such RMB click functionallity directly....but KDE 
isn't MS Windows: the K-menu is very well organised and there are is even 
some standardisation for it. And because of this people don't need to have 
directly access to such feature as in MS Windows: if we implement it standard 
directly it will plague more users than it will ease because it isn't a daily 
task under KDE. In fact I've *never* had to use KMenuEdit...

So: If people asks for such functionallity in KDE there will be 2 possible 
reasons:
1) The user used before MS Windows and used this functionality so much that he 
wonders that it isn't at that place. IMO it might be useful to have an option 
in kpersonalizer which asks which environment the user uses before. Based on 
this information there will be on some places don't show this again popups 
showed (like an RMB click on the kmenu). In these popups the user can read 
why this functionallity isn't needed in KDE, where he can find the place to 
change it (here: KMenuEdit), a button to start an interactive tutorial (which 
shows the user how to start and use KMenuEdit here), a help button,... IMO 
doning this is much better than making KDE acts like MS Windows (we already 
have XPde for this like I already mentioned).
2) There is a usability problem with the menu which needs to be solved.

<snip>
> > On the contrary: If there is sufficient visual feedback, the users will
> > feel even more in control. Actually, is a user bothers to reorder the
> > menu, he will expect to be able to manipulate it directly. The reason
> > is that Windows implemented this feature since Win98 (I believe).
>
> And WinXP add more visual feedback, that take a time of pleasure to
> rearange the menu.
> But : I think if the menu is well organized (as now : one deep level and
> simplicity : contrary to Win, it isn't arranged by editors and doesn't
> contain uggly readme, uninstall, visitMyCommercialSite...) the user
> doesn't need to reorganize it (it just could want to add an item for a
> recent non-KDE installed app (if the distrib doesn't add any entry for
> it).
>
> In Windows we NEED to rearange the fully and ugly StartMenu.

I fully agree with this! :)

> But why a KDE user could want to re-arange it ??? If he want, there is a
> conception problem and we must fix it. The alone reason I want to d'n'd
> an icon to the KMenu is to d'n'd a desktop icon...

See above.

> Have you made any tests to know why users want to rearange there KMenu ?

No, but I think there are 2 reasons like you can see above :)

> With d'n'd in KMenu we introduce a problem : whereas a user quick click
> on an item, he press the mouse, move it, and release, quickly...
> Now, it's KMenu is uggly and he is disturbed.
> If, by any chance, he know what he was done, it induce a new work for
> rearange it as before.
> A solution for it, is, when the user d'n'd an item FOR THE FIRST TIME, a
> popup appears to say what he is doing and allow he to unactive this
> feature to keep secured in the future.

It should be possible to use KDE without danger when you're drunk: so this 
isn't a good sollution ;)

<snip>

- -- 
Mvg, Sander Devrieze.
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