[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] 

List:       kde-usability
Subject:    
From:       Keunwoo Lee <klee () cs ! washington ! edu>
Date:       2003-06-26 0:51:24
[Download RAW message or body]

On 25 Jun 2003, David Legg wrote:

> These are comments entirely based on opinions, and when it comes to
> default settings in KDE I think we need to steer clear of individual
> opinions.

OK, fine, let's go beyond mere "individual opinions"; perhaps we should
take some surveys:

http://keunwoo.freepolls.com/cgi-bin/polls/001/poll_center.htm
http://keunwoo.freepolls.com/cgi-bin/polls/002/poll_center.htm

Pass these around, please.  I'm submitting them to dot.kde.org as well.  
I'll report the results in a week or so.

BTW, here are the results of the kde-look poll a year ago:

http://www.kde-look.org/poll/index.php?poll=10

I am curious to see whether the results have changed since then, now that
Keramik's novelty has worn off a bit.

> I don't use Keramik, and, personally, I don't like it (I just can't use
> it!), but it is a theme that does a good job of promoting KDE to the
> outside world and attracting people to it.

I think it's interesting that even defenders of Keramik say that they
don't use it and don't find it usable.  It seems virtually everyone I talk
to or email about KDE turns off Keramik.  Is there anyone here who will
defend Keramik *and* who uses it daily?

If people are turning Keramik off when it comes time to get any work done,
then it's not something that ought to be inflicted on users by default.

Also, if Keramik is being kept for "marketing" even though we have more
usable styles, then our priorities have gotten as confused as those in
Redmond or Cupertino.  Certainly, having a strong KDE "brand" is
important, but it's not worth making life worse for users.  In any case, I
think the Crystal icon set takes care of a lot of the "branding".  Even
the Light styles with Crystal icons are hardly drab.

BTW I dislike MKUltra and I prefer Light 3rd rev. to dotNET.  My
participation in this thread is not to advertise any particular style.

> KDE was notorious for having a boring, ugly and flat default theme. Now
> that has been rectified some people are weighing in with comments of
> Keramik being boring and ugly, and proposing that it be replaced. We
> can't have it all ways.

I don't think anyone's been saying Keramik is "boring", just that it's too
visually heavy and distracting, and it's not very refined (e.g., the tab
widget looks pretty bad).  Even Keramik's defenders think Keramik is
deeply flawed, as David writes.  BTW, regarding David's statement:

> [Keramik] is a theme that does a great overall job of marketing KDE to
> people who haven't seen KDE before, although it isn't necessarily the
> most usable theme in the world on a day-to-day basis at the moment.
> ... [deletia] ...
> If you want to change it and use something else, then that's great, but
> I don't think that some peoples' idea of a default theme should be
> imposed on other people.

Ack!  Isn't the de facto KDE philosophy to "embrace configurability, but
use sensible defaults"?  The usability of the default theme is important,
because sophisticated users will always switch themes (and even
download/build additional themes from kde-look) but the naive user won't.

Also, if Keramik needs to be refined before it's adequately usable, then
its adoption as the default style was premature.  It should be retired in
favor of a more usable style until those refinements occur.

> Is this actually being considered?

If Waldo's opinion is typical of the core development team, then it's just
"mere users" like me who are agitating to get it changed.  So, no, it's
not "actually being considered" by developers.  The reason I'm continuing
to be a squeaky wheel about this is that I am hoping that, eventually,
this might change.  (Maybe in time for KDE 4?)

~k

-- 
GPG public key id: 0x5CFD1761 (available on a key server near you)







_______________________________________________
kde-usability mailing list
kde-usability@mail.kde.org
http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability
[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]