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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Observations on the new KWord startup dialog
From:       Thomas Zander <zander () planescape ! com>
Date:       2003-05-27 21:19:13
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On Tuesday 27 May 2003 17:02, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > You missed some features
> > - the left and right as rest to resizing policy 'minimum' so the center
> > takes all available space
>
> i don't want the center to take all available space. in fact, if anything,
> the third panel should take up more space so as to provide room for
> content. there is nothing special about the centre column..

I disagree; the amount of different templates per 'category' can grow quite 
easily. You don't want it growing vertically when it can grow horizontally.
Remember that a company can easily create 20 templates for their styles which 
have to be viewed correctly.

> > - The open button should be right aligned (its a bit too big now)
> that's sort of the point. it's in an out-of-the way place, so i wanted to
> make sure it is noticeable. 

This just makes me think its positioned wrong; you are prepared to break 
standard UI rules to make it look different since (as you allready found) it 
is out of place...
Never a good idea.

> > - you miss the location label (for recent files)
>
> that would appear in the third pane in the description area.
A URL tends to get quite long, and spanning it over two lines surely does not 
increas readablility.

> > - you miss the intro text
>
> third pane.

Surely not; the intro is about the whole dialog. Its an intro on what you are 
doing in this dialog and should be a one liner that does not go away; that 
has no place in a context sensitive panel...

>    http://urbanlizard.com/~aseigo/koffice_open.ui
> > I don't like the header 'Categories'. First it should be clear without
> > that header and second it stops me from looking for recent files there.
>
> yes, you're probably right on that one...
>
> > I think you want a normal list here with icons _above_ the names. Just
> > like the panels that group config dialogs (the kword config for example)
>
> i want them beside the words... this keep the relationship between icon and
> text completely unambiguous, 
Since we have different background colors per row this is not any better above 
my proposal. Plus that the concept of icon above text is pretty omnipresent 
in every GUI.

> saves vertical space (allowing larger icons 
> w/out a vertical scroll bar) and preserves the left-to-right nature of this
> dialog. see the MacOS X finder for examples of this...
But the horizontal space is always more expensive then the vertical space of a 
computer screen. So this does not make any sense.
Amazingly enough; whenever you see a screenshot of konqueror you see the icons 
view. The icons there are above the text. As people only make screenshots of 
things they think are beutiful (for the purpose of demo-ing anyway :) I think 
you are wrong in your assumptions.

> > You made the same mistake using the open/open existing file buttons I
> > posed in the email you replied to.
>
> the wording of the button in the third frame sucked =) i hope i've improved
> that somewhat ...

Thats not the point.
It is about what the button is for relative to the placement of the button.  
If I make an outline of the dialog (only the panel outlines and lines plus 
the buttons, and absolutely no text) people will not expect the usage you 
want this button to have.
Any texts, colors or other goodies are no substitute for correct placement of 
buttons.

> > > and just to be a broken record, this should be embedded right IN the
> > > kword/kspread/kpresenter/etc window and NOT a stand-alone modal dialog.
> >
> > Maybe that last point is the real solution; just show the template
> > chooser in the main window and have a button on top to open an existing
> > file using an external KFD.
> > This steps around a whole lot of problems...
>
> i think so...

Hope that you get some ideas to finish this.
My Qt does not seem able to open kde widgets anymore.. Wierd (no -kde option 
for configure).

- -- 
Thomas Zander

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