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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Broken "Line Up Icons" in recent CVS HEAD
From:       Matt Bonyak <dingodonkey () stny ! rr ! com>
Date:       2002-07-28 19:06:15
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On Sunday 28 July 2002 06:28 am, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> so you want two places in the menu that do the same thing, but one that
> controls the behaviour of the other and which works only the first time you
> select it.

I don't want to repeat myself, but I guess I'll have to.  "Line Up Icons" 
would simply act as a shortcut to going through the "Arrange Icons" menu and 
selecting exactly what you want.  It would align them to whatever your 
current scheme is.

>  o select vertical arrangement (icons are arranged vertically)
>  o select vertical arrangement again (nothing happens)
>
> not good. explain to the user why they now have to pick a different method
> of accomplishing the task they just did.

I think you've got me wrong on this point.  If the user selects vertical 
arrangement again, they should be lined up (remember, this is a combination 
sort and align that I am advocating).  Therefore, either action that the user 
is attempting in this menu will be accomplished without a problem.

>  o select line up icons (icons are arranged vertically)
>  o not what you wanted. you wanted them horizontally
>  o select arrange horizontally (icons are arranged horizontally)
>
> the user just wasted a step, and who knows why (well, we do. but do they?)

If the user wants them horizontally, but already has been using them 
vertically, I don't think the user will assume that that's the way it'll 
happen.  At least not most of the time.  And for those few times, it 
shouldn't be terribly difficult for the user to figure out how to accomplish 
that task in the future.

> there is no reason to have the settings seperate from the action. the user
> wants things lined up one way or the other. seperating them only creates
> additional actions, additional menu items, duplicated functionality and an
> inconsistent interface. i mean, you don't see a "arrange by name" and then
> a "rearrange icons" item, do you? no, there is a single option to both set
> the mode and perform the arrangement.

It is my understanding that the revised system creates additional menus, which 
is greater an inconvenience than having additional submenu items to wade 
through.  Exactly, a single option to set and perform a specific arrangement.  
Then a more-accessible option to perform the arrangement/alignment/etc that 
is currently in use, simplifying for the user the task of figuring out "well, 
which of these arrangements do i want?"  Since most users won't change from 
the vertical sorting method, I think it will be a great convenience.  Having 
to expand that into a menu and then select which every time, however, would 
be a yet greater annoyance.

> well, that's just it... one is sorting and one is alignment. they aren't
> the same parameter.

I'm saying that one is "sorting/alignment," the other is "easy alignment by 
current configuration."  They aren't the exact same thing, but they're so 
closely related that, for the convenience of the "one-click line-up" it is 
certainly worth separating.  By extension, I would consider "vertical" and 
"horizontal" to be arrangement methods/attributes, although I would probably 
still argue this position even if I did not.

> i'm experimenting right now with some improvements (e.g. fewer submenus,
> s/Arrange/Sort/g) .. so we'll see..

I do agree with a comment by Simon Edwards, that the case-sensitivity in the 
sorting process is unnecessary and cluttersome.
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