[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
List: kde-redhat-users
Subject: kde-redhat-users Digest, Vol 25, Issue 3
From: kde-redhat-users-request () lists ! sourceforge ! net
Date: 2008-06-17 4:45:09
Message-ID: mailman.8806.1213677909.10106.kde-redhat-users () lists ! sourceforge ! net
[Download RAW message or body]
Send kde-redhat-users mailing list submissions to
kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kde-redhat-users
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
kde-redhat-users-request@lists.sourceforge.net
You can reach the person managing the list at
kde-redhat-users-owner@lists.sourceforge.net
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of kde-redhat-users digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: What's going on guys? (Paul Johnson)
2. Re: What's going on guys? (Rex Dieter)
3. Re: 4.1beta1 coming to f9/unstable repo (Thomas Moschny)
4. Re: 4.1beta1 coming to f9/unstable repo (Colin J Thomson)
5. Re: What's going on guys? (Arthur Pemberton)
6. Re: What's going on guys? (Rex Dieter)
7. Re: What's going on guys? (Arthur Pemberton)
8. Criticism of F9 Fairness. (Eli Wapniarski)
[Attachment #4 (multipart/digest)]
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: "Paul Johnson" <pauljohn32@gmail.com>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "General discussion for kde-redhat users"
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
References: <16de708d0806152145q54ffb238wba8cd6894e230bab@mail.gmail.com>
<48565560.3010001@math.unl.edu>
In-Reply-To: <48565560.3010001@math.unl.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:33:20 -0500
Reply-To: General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <13e802630806160733m1d4b944bm309ca95abd31d2bc@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: [kde-redhat-users] What's going on guys?
Message: 1
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 6:58 AM, Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu> wrote:
> Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> From
> the recent fedora-list thread, my perception of it was that most people
> seem to be satisfied with how things are progressing, and that there are
> only a few very vocal members of our community who are genuinely unhappy.
I've gone to Ubuntu, so you don't hear me complaining about it here anymore.
My complaint against kde-redhat group was wrong. The weakness of KDE
4 is certainly not a fault of RedHat/Fedora or Rex D. I accused
Fedora of trying to subvert KDE by releasing F9 that way, and I was
completely wrong. KDE 4 is a weakness caused by the KDE team itself,
as far as I can see. KDE had all those cool features in 3.5.8 and then
they disappeared in 4.0. I'm not a developer, but I think it would
have been smarter (more honest) to label KDE 4.0 as KDE 3.9 or
something like that, so distributions would stay away from it. But
when they labeled it 4.0, the temptation was irresistable.
The F9 also adopted the beta xorg framework, and so adopting the
not-yet-ready KDE was entirely consistent.
Fedora is not alone. I'm seeing the same complaints about Ubuntu and
SUSE as well. In Ubuntu I'm running Gnome-compiz at the moment, but
I'm eager to see what happens with KDE 4.x. In the Compiz forums,
there is some excited conversation about the 4.1 edition integratin
Compiz into KDE 4.1.
PJ
>
>> Seems like you guys have enough technical problems to deal with as it
>> is. What are "we" going to do about this?
>
> Some very interested people seem to be unhappy about decision-making,
> but only after-the-fact. Heck, an analogy I've been tempted to use
> recently is this: sometimes folks who don't vote end up being those who
> complain most about their elected politicians.
>
> fedora/kde is always open to new ideas and (constructive) criticism, so
> my point is that if these folks are genuinely that passionate about kde,
> I'd challenge them to become more involved in the process.
>
> -- Rex
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
> It's the best place to buy or sell services for
> just about anything Open Source.
> http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
> _______________________________________________
> kde-redhat-users mailing list
> kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kde-redhat-users
>
--
Paul E. Johnson
Professor, Political Science
1541 Lilac Lane, Room 504
University of Kansas
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
References: <16de708d0806152145q54ffb238wba8cd6894e230bab@mail.gmail.com> <48565560.3010001@math.unl.edu>
<13e802630806160733m1d4b944bm309ca95abd31d2bc@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <13e802630806160733m1d4b944bm309ca95abd31d2bc@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:52:20 -0500
Reply-To: General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <48567E24.6050904@math.unl.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Subject: Re: [kde-redhat-users] What's going on guys?
Message: 2
Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 6:58 AM, Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu> wrote:
>> Arthur Pemberton wrote:
>> From
>> the recent fedora-list thread, my perception of it was that most people
>> seem to be satisfied with how things are progressing, and that there are
>> only a few very vocal members of our community who are genuinely unhappy.
>
> I've gone to Ubuntu, so you don't hear me complaining about it here anymore.
Ubuntu has kde-4.0 available too, just they went through the much extra
pain to make it parallel-installable to a kde3 desktop too.
> ... KDE 4 is a weakness caused by the KDE team itself,
> as far as I can see. KDE had all those cool features in 3.5.8 and then
> they disappeared in 4.0. I'm not a developer, but I think it would
> have been smarter (more honest) to label KDE 4.0 as KDE 3.9 or
> something like that, so distributions would stay away from it. But
> when they labeled it 4.0, the temptation was irresistable.
>
> The F9 also adopted the beta xorg framework, and so adopting the
> not-yet-ready KDE was entirely consistent.
Thanks for the followup Paul. True, there's pros/cons that go into
every decision on when to include these bits in fedora. It just so
happens that we don't agree 100% on whether the pros outweigh the cons
in these cases. And that's ok. :) I'm also ok with possibly/someday
agreeing with you that it wasn't the best decision to include kde-4.0,
but I don't think I'll ever get there.
warning... another soapbox moment coming on...
Leading the pack wrt free software and innovation, is sometimes a little
painful. We've seen that recently in fedora, for example with
PulseAudio, NetworkManager(0.7, *still* not released), xorg, and now
kde4. I'm more than glad to help blaze the path for others to follow.
-- Rex
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: "Thomas Moschny" <thomas.moschny@gmail.com>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "General discussion for kde-redhat users"
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
References: <48481734.6030001@math.unl.edu>
<a9d183c80806160410g7897cferf4cb1e1677c4dc93@mail.gmail.com>
<485655D1.90007@math.unl.edu>
In-Reply-To: <485655D1.90007@math.unl.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:03:53 +0200
Reply-To: General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <a9d183c80806160803k367a1a51ya8dc235c033e6f63@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: [kde-redhat-users] 4.1beta1 coming to f9/unstable repo
Message: 3
2008/6/16 Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu>:
> kde-redhat repos have never been multilib (it's a pain in the arse to
> get right), sorry.
>
> If you want multilib, you'll need to deal with it manually, either by
> installing i386 stuff by hand or by also enabling the i386 repo.
>
> Suggestions, help here welcome.
Ok, just adding repo entries for i386 did the trick. In fact, only qt
and qt-x11 were needed in both archs on my system.
- Thomas
PS: Just a side note: scrolling of messages in kmail or knode is
awfully slow - anyone else seeing this?
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Colin J Thomson <colin@g6avk.demon.co.uk>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "General discussion for kde-redhat users"
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
References: <48481734.6030001@math.unl.edu> <485655D1.90007@math.unl.edu>
<a9d183c80806160803k367a1a51ya8dc235c033e6f63@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <a9d183c80806160803k367a1a51ya8dc235c033e6f63@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:08:11 +0100
Reply-To: colin@g6avk.demon.co.uk, General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <200806161808.12402.colin@g6avk.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: Re: [kde-redhat-users] 4.1beta1 coming to f9/unstable repo
Message: 4
On Monday 16 June 2008 16:03:53 Thomas Moschny wrote:
> PS: Just a side note: scrolling of messages in kmail or knode is
> awfully slow - anyone else seeing this?
Only in the message preview window in Kmail it "smooth scrolls" fairly slowly
but its not a problem for me, with Knode it seems the same as it was in
4.0.5/3.5 etc.
Cheers
Colin
--
Fedora 9 (Sulphur)
Registered Linux user number #342953
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: "Arthur Pemberton" <pemboa@gmail.com>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "General discussion for kde-redhat users"
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
References: <16de708d0806152145q54ffb238wba8cd6894e230bab@mail.gmail.com>
<48565560.3010001@math.unl.edu>
In-Reply-To: <48565560.3010001@math.unl.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 12:43:22 -0500
Reply-To: General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <16de708d0806161043s66ac69bcx74f66c7a7864a38b@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: [kde-redhat-users] What's going on guys?
Message: 5
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 6:58 AM, Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu> wrote:
[ snip ]
>> 1. The "powers that be" of Fedora still seem to consider KDE a "second
>> class" citizen.
>
> Really, what makes you think that?
The ongoing '"Default" spin of Fedora' thread leads me to believe that
things are far from cozy. Maybe "powers that be" was a poor choice of
words.
>> 2. Some F9 and F10 users seem to feel very strongly about the KDE 4.x
>> experience. Nothing good seems to be coming out of the ongoing
>> discussions.
>
> Let me offer a different take: I think it's been valuable... both in
> hearing all sides' opinions, and in identifying folks' concerns. From
> the recent fedora-list thread, my perception of it was that most people
> seem to be satisfied with how things are progressing, and that there are
> only a few very vocal members of our community who are genuinely unhappy.
I'm glad that there is some value in this
>> Seems like you guys have enough technical problems to deal with as it
>> is. What are "we" going to do about this?
>
> Some very interested people seem to be unhappy about decision-making,
> but only after-the-fact. Heck, an analogy I've been tempted to use
> recently is this: sometimes folks who don't vote end up being those who
> complain most about their elected politicians.
>
> fedora/kde is always open to new ideas and (constructive) criticism, so
> my point is that if these folks are genuinely that passionate about kde,
> I'd challenge them to become more involved in the process.
That is my perception as well. What I don't have a grasp of is the
significance of the numbers.
I like KDE and I like the Fedora community, but how much effort can
you guys put in for what could literally eventually be for only dozens
of user?
The combined effect of highlighting a single "Desktop Spin" and the
some what unintuitive procedure from getting a clean KDE desktop from
the DVD media doesn't seem to bode well for us.
On a more positive note, if at some time in the future, I can commit
to maintain a website or sub-site to highlight KDE in fedora efforts,
would that be considered a good idea? or something that may breed
additional division?
--
Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
( www.pembo13.com )
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
References: <16de708d0806152145q54ffb238wba8cd6894e230bab@mail.gmail.com> <48565560.3010001@math.unl.edu>
<16de708d0806161043s66ac69bcx74f66c7a7864a38b@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <16de708d0806161043s66ac69bcx74f66c7a7864a38b@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:54:07 -0500
Reply-To: General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <4856C4DF.9010304@math.unl.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Subject: Re: [kde-redhat-users] What's going on guys?
Message: 6
Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 6:58 AM, Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu> wrote:
> [ snip ]
>
>>> 1. The "powers that be" of Fedora still seem to consider KDE a "second
>>> class" citizen.
>> Really, what makes you think that?
>
> The ongoing '"Default" spin of Fedora' thread leads me to believe that
> things are far from cozy. Maybe "powers that be" was a poor choice of
> words.
Yeah, that's lame. They should just own-up and call it the gnome spin.
They *claim* the "Desktop" spin includes only best-of-breed apps... if
so, where is k3b or amarok (among other very fine and deserving kde apps)?
> What I don't have a grasp of is the
> significance of the numbers.
>
> I like KDE and I like the Fedora community, but how much effort can
> you guys put in for what could literally eventually be for only dozens
> of user?
Don't sell KDE short. There are *many* kde users, particularly outside
the US.
> The combined effect of highlighting a single "Desktop Spin" and the
> some what unintuitive procedure from getting a clean KDE desktop from
> the DVD media doesn't seem to bode well for us.
I'm curious, what is your definition of "clean KDE desktop" ?
My current beef is that gdm is unconditionally installed everywhere
(except when using KDE Live image), and I'm working on getting that
resolved for F10.
> On a more positive note, if at some time in the future, I can commit
> to maintain a website or sub-site to highlight KDE in fedora efforts,
> would that be considered a good idea? or something that may breed
> additional division?
That would be fabulous. Would be ideal to host such information within
fedora's site/wiki, but beggars can't be choosers. :)
-- Rex
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: "Arthur Pemberton" <pemboa@gmail.com>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "General discussion for kde-redhat users"
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
References: <16de708d0806152145q54ffb238wba8cd6894e230bab@mail.gmail.com>
<48565560.3010001@math.unl.edu>
<16de708d0806161043s66ac69bcx74f66c7a7864a38b@mail.gmail.com>
<4856C4DF.9010304@math.unl.edu>
In-Reply-To: <4856C4DF.9010304@math.unl.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:14:43 -0500
Reply-To: General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <16de708d0806161314i40d2365m176786d911f538a8@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: [kde-redhat-users] What's going on guys?
Message: 7
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu> wrote:
> Arthur Pemberton wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 6:58 AM, Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu> wrote:
>> [ snip ]
>>
>>>> 1. The "powers that be" of Fedora still seem to consider KDE a "second
>>>> class" citizen.
>>> Really, what makes you think that?
>>
>> The ongoing '"Default" spin of Fedora' thread leads me to believe that
>> things are far from cozy. Maybe "powers that be" was a poor choice of
>> words.
>
> Yeah, that's lame. They should just own-up and call it the gnome spin.
> They *claim* the "Desktop" spin includes only best-of-breed apps... if
> so, where is k3b or amarok (among other very fine and deserving kde apps)?
Exactly, I understand the decision to use Gnome as a default, but not
making it clear that the user only gets Gnome is unfair (in that spin)
>> What I don't have a grasp of is the
>> significance of the numbers.
>>
>> I like KDE and I like the Fedora community, but how much effort can
>> you guys put in for what could literally eventually be for only dozens
>> of user?
>
> Don't sell KDE short. There are *many* kde users, particularly outside
> the US.
Okay, thanks for that assurance, I had no grasp of that myself.
>> The combined effect of highlighting a single "Desktop Spin" and the
>> some what unintuitive procedure from getting a clean KDE desktop from
>> the DVD media doesn't seem to bode well for us.
>
> I'm curious, what is your definition of "clean KDE desktop" ?
See your next paragraph.
> My current beef is that gdm is unconditionally installed everywhere
> (except when using KDE Live image), and I'm working on getting that
> resolved for F10.
Having Gnome apps in the KDE spin is fine by me. I actually like that
the system-config tools are in Gtk, although I wish that they have no
*gnome* deps.
However, choosing KDE when installing and getting GDM on your first
successful boot is definitely confusing when you first get started
with Fedora at least.
>> On a more positive note, if at some time in the future, I can commit
>> to maintain a website or sub-site to highlight KDE in fedora efforts,
>> would that be considered a good idea? or something that may breed
>> additional division?
>
> That would be fabulous. Would be ideal to host such information within
> fedora's site/wiki, but beggars can't be choosers. :)
I will look into it, and get back to you. Pre migration, I had wiki
access, but wiki aren't all that good for "rich content".
--
Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
( www.pembo13.com )
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Eli Wapniarski <eli@orbsky.homelinux.org>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "General discussion for kde-redhat users"
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 07:44:46 +0300
Reply-To: General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <200806170744.46832.eli@orbsky.homelinux.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"
Subject: [kde-redhat-users] Criticism of F9 Fairness.
Message: 8
Hi Everyone.
I've been mostly staying out of this debate because I'm not a voting member.
However, I must say that most of the criticism that I've read on the net has
been quite fair regarding Fedora 9.
While being experimental people rely on it also to get their work done.
Problems with NVidia drivers, Xinerama problems with X Windows. (IMHO and
with much appreciation to the very hard work everyone is putting into Fedora)
a brain dead KDE 4.0x. And everyone caught in the same RH 8 mode of thinking
that because its newer its got to be better.
Bleeding edge thats great. But not so edgy that the users relying on the
software start bleeding. We rely on and need our desktop to play games, do
real work, surf the net, access information on computers and on the network
etc.
Please consider this when putting out Fedora 10. Maybe its time to slow down a
little and take a breath huh? Just a little :).
Eli
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
--===============0052135250==--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
It's the best place to buy or sell services for
just about anything Open Source.
http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
_______________________________________________
kde-redhat-users mailing list
kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kde-redhat-users
[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
Configure |
About |
News |
Add a list |
Sponsored by KoreLogic