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List: kde-promo
Subject: Re: [kde-promo] KDE & itsme
From: Giovanni Martinelli <giovanni.martinelli () itsme ! it>
Date: 2010-02-22 13:33:23
Message-ID: f855c65d1002220533s6834876an78eac06abbfb85e1 () mail ! gmail ! com
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Hi Jos,
I guess the guys missed the appointment due to flight schedule... not sure
if any other contacts there.
We'll be back to you on kde sometime in the near future...
Ciao
G
2010/2/18 Jos Poortvliet <jospoortvliet@gmail.com>
> Did you guys manage to find each other and discuss a few things? With
> the latest release of the KDE libraries Nepomuk has been deemed ready
> for public consumption after significant improvements. It might be
> worth evaluating it once again...
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Giovanni Martinelli
> <giovanni.martinelli@itsme.it> wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > sorry for not replying first... mail was lost in my backlog
> >
> > There will be few people from Itsme there (Bob, Fabio, Lorenzo & Michel=
e)
> so
> > good if you know each other!
> >
> > In term of Itsme project we are know putting together some of our
> building
> > blocks and at FOSDEM you will see one of them. From a technical
> perspective
> > we are taking several pieces around that actually fit with our needs: o=
ur
> > GUI will be Qt based and will probably re-use some KDE as basis, while
> for
> > the part you will see sit on top of tracker.
> >
> > So yes, would be nice for us to talk about future cooperation/synergy
> but
> > would be perfect for us to postpone the discussion for a month or so. =
We
> > are now in a transitional phase in term of internal organization so
> better
> > if we can postpone a bit.
> >
> > Would it still be ok for you? We can probably schedule a conf call for
> > sometime beginning of March...
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Giovanni
> >
> >
> >
> > 2010/2/1 St=C3=A9phane Lauri=C3=A8re <slauriere@mandriva.com>
> >>
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> As a follow-up, just in case you don't know about it, Sebastian will
> >> give a talk on the current status and the future of Nepomuk in the
> >> CrossDesktop room at the FOSDEM next Sunday [1]. That'd be great to se=
e
> >> some ItsMe contributors there for discussing any possible future
> >> synergies between the two projects.
> >>
> >> [1] http://www.fosdem.org/2010/schedule/events/xd_nepomuk
> >>
> >> Hoping to see you in Brussels,
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> St=C3=A9phane Lauri=C4=8Dre, in charge of semantic and collaborative t=
echnologies
> >> at Mandriva
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Vincenzo Di Massa
> >>> <vincenzo.dimassa@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I CC Nico Sica, our PR person, and Giovanni Martinelli, our
> developement
> >>>> leader, so that KDE-promo has the contacts of the
> >>>> persons in the "control room".
> >>>>
> >>>> Then I CC Michele Tameni our "worst enemy" Gnome fanboy and itsme
> >>>> developer :-)
> >>>
> >>> Hi all!
> >>>
> >>>> Btw, it is not itsme talking to KDE here, it is Vincenzo speaking.
> Only
> >>>> Giovanni and Nico can speak for itsme.
> >>>>
> >>>> I answer inline ...
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Jos Poortvliet
> >>>> <jospoortvliet@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> <snip>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maybe it's worth an interview or you guys can host a meeting or
> >>>>> something sometime, that's a neath way of getting closer to the
> >>>>> KDE community.
> >>>>
> >>>> Nico, Giovanni: what about a meeting or hosting? Even skype call
> >>>> could be a nice start point.
> >>>
> >>> Depending on what and how much you do with KDE technology a story on
> the
> >>> dot might be possible. That's quite a high-profile site with many
> >>> other news sites picking it up.
> >>>
> >>> <snip>
> >>>>
> >>>> You know the effect that the 4.0 release had on Gtk/Gnome people...
> >>>> we are not there anymore, but it still hurts sometimes. (I'm not
> >>>> blaming the 4.0 release, but we must admit it gave new energies to
> >>>> so many trolls). Maybe talking with KDE people who are good at
> >>>> communicating it could emerge how much KDE technologies shine today
> >>>> :-)
> >>>
> >>> Well, the 4.0 release has hurt some users (due to distributions
> shipping
> >>> it despite our discouragement), but since then our developer
> >>> force has doubled. For developers the 4.0 release was great - a
> >>> framework which is technically ahead of whatever MS and Apple can thr=
ow
> at
> >>> us.
> >>>
> >>>> Well, lets me "patch" this part of my previous email: we studied
> >>>> and internally documented many KDE technologies (plamsa, akonadi,
> >>>> nepomuk, soprano, strigi, -virtuoso-, and others I can't remember
> >>>> right now)... we had meetings where everyone else had to
> >>>> listen/learn about those pieces of software. Then we decided to
> >>>> start using soprano+sesame2... I was involved in the implementation
> >>>> of a basic backend for soprano then moved back to GUI stuff.
> >>>>
> >>>> Look at the following slides (particularly slide 82) for a
> >>>> description of what role soprano played
> >>>> http://www.slideshare.net/itsmesrl/itsme-lezione-usi-lugano
> >>>
> >>> Interesting.
> >>>
> >>>> Since then we had problems with soprano and a guy in our team
> >>>> started experimenting with tracker. He immediately felt better with
> >>>> tracker (he is a Gtk/Gnome kind of person :-P), and the whole team
> >>>> was convinced that using tracker + DIY (do it yourself) would be
> >>>> better than trying to fix soprano (wich because of sesame was
> >>>> really feature missing at the time). Since then they migrated
> >>>> Guglielmo (the itsme equivalent of nepomuk-kde) and AVFS (will have
> >>>> a new name shortly, basically it is a fuse overlay over the RDF
> >>>> storage, sort of like KIO::nepomuk) to tracker.
> >>>
> >>> Well, that is unfortunate as it is my understanding from Sebastian
> >>> Trueg's website that the new virtuosa backend for Soprano kind'a solv=
es
> the
> >>> problems it has... http://trueg.wordpress.com/
> >>>
> >>>> Our initial Guglielmo code will hopefully be released as
> >>>> open-source in a month or so.
> >>>>
> >>>> So they know what the technologies do, and they tried to use
> >>>> them... Where I wrote "our developers not understanding the benefit
> >>>> of the Nepomuk integration with the rest of KDE products" please
> >>>> read "our developers not evaluating the benefits of the Nepomuk
> >>>> integration with the other KDE technologies more than the efforts
> >>>> needed to fix Nepomuk/Soprano".
> >>>>
> >>>> In my opinion what my team is not "understanding" is that the
> >>>> flexibility and the tight integration of KDE technologies is really
> >>>> huge compared to the cost of "fixing it when it does not work for
> >>>> your needs".
> >>>
> >>> Yes, I guess that's something really worth communicating. It takes a
> >>> while to get the infrastructure up and running but once you do you
> >>> can get features others spend months on in a couple of hours.
> >>>
> >>>>> Tracker is really not flexible enough for what you want to do, as
> >>>>> far as I can tell.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have the same impression, but I guess that experimenting both
> tracker
> >>>> and soprano is added value to itsme and KDE and Gnome :-)
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe we could write a post about the switch and its reasons.
> >>>
> >>> That would be interesting - if anyone on your team could blog about
> that,
> >>> I can link to it from planet.kde.org. Or even more interesting,
> >>> talk about it with Sebastian ;-)
> >>>
> >>>>> How about we get a Nepomuk person to your company to help you guys
> out?
> >>>>
> >>>> I would love to meet people from the Nepomuk team (we contacted
> >>>> Sebastian Trueg while working on soprano and also submitted some
> patches)
> >>>
> >>> Cool. I guess you contacted developers using IRC or mailinglists or
> >>> personal mail? This works best when it comes to getting answers ;-)
> >>>
> >>> Of course when it comes to making decisions on technology there are a
> >>> couple of companies in the KDE ecosystem who can help with that. For
> >>> example KDAB, BasysKom, KO GmbH and Collabora.
> >>>
> >>> To get down to business:
> >>>
> >>> - I would love to hear a bit more about your usage of KDE technologie=
s,
> >>> that might lead to a dot story. We can take it from there and see if
> there
> >>> are more ways to cooperate in the marketing
> >>> and promo department.
> >>>
> >>> - I will ask Sebastian Trueg to get in contact with you and see if he
> >>> can help out on the Nepomuk things.
> >>>
> >>> - When it comes to technical questions you should really contact the
> >>> appropriate developers through IRC, mailinglists etc, if you need
> >>> help ask me. For more in-depth consultancy contact one of the KDE
> >>> businesses.
> >>>
> >>> Did I miss anything?
> >>>
> >>> Greetings,
> >>>
> >>> Jos Poortvliet KDE Marketing
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> St=C3=A9phane Lauri=C4=8Dre
> >> Mandriva http://mandriva.com
> >> Mobile: +33 6 45 81 62 02
> >> http://twitter.com/arkub
> >
> >
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
Hi Jos,<br><br>I guess the guys missed the appointment due to flight \
schedule... not sure if any other contacts there.<br><br>We'll be back \
to you on kde sometime in the near future...<br><br>Ciao<br>G<br><br><div \
class="gmail_quote"> 2010/2/18 Jos Poortvliet <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:jospoortvliet@gmail.com">jospoortvliet@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px \
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> Did you guys manage to find \
each other and discuss a few things? With<br> the latest release of the KDE \
libraries Nepomuk has been deemed ready<br> for public consumption after \
significant improvements. It might be<br> worth evaluating it once \
again...<br> <div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Giovanni Martinelli<br>
<<a href="mailto:giovanni.martinelli@itsme.it">giovanni.martinelli@itsme.it</a>> \
wrote:<br> > Hi there,<br>
><br>
> sorry for not replying first... mail was lost in my backlog<br>
><br>
> There will be few people from Itsme there (Bob, Fabio, Lorenzo & \
Michele) so<br> > good if you know each other!<br>
><br>
> In term of Itsme project we are know putting together some of our \
building<br> > blocks and at FOSDEM you will see one of them. From a \
technical perspective<br> > we are taking several pieces around that \
actually fit with our needs: our<br> > GUI will be Qt based and will \
probably re-use some KDE as basis, while for<br> > the part you will see \
sit on top of tracker.<br> ><br>
> So yes, would be nice for us to talk about future cooperation/synergy \
but<br> > would be perfect for us to postpone the discussion for a month \
or so. We<br> > are now in a transitional phase in term of internal \
organization so better<br> > if we can postpone a bit.<br>
><br>
> Would it still be ok for you? We can probably schedule a conf call \
for<br> > sometime beginning of March...<br>
><br>
><br>
> Cheers,<br>
> Giovanni<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> 2010/2/1 Stéphane Laurière <<a \
href="mailto:slauriere@mandriva.com">slauriere@mandriva.com</a>><br> \
>><br> >> Hi everyone,<br>
>><br>
>> As a follow-up, just in case you don't know about it, \
Sebastian will<br> >> give a talk on the current status and the \
future of Nepomuk in the<br> >> CrossDesktop room at the FOSDEM next \
Sunday [1]. That'd be great to see<br> >> some ItsMe contributors \
there for discussing any possible future<br> >> synergies between the \
two projects.<br> >><br>
>> [1] <a href="http://www.fosdem.org/2010/schedule/events/xd_nepomuk" \
target="_blank">http://www.fosdem.org/2010/schedule/events/xd_nepomuk</a><br>
>><br>
>> Hoping to see you in Brussels,<br>
>><br>
>> Cheers<br>
>><br>
>> Stéphane Lauričre, in charge of semantic and collaborative \
technologies<br> >> at Mandriva<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Vincenzo Di Massa<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:vincenzo.dimassa@gmail.com">vincenzo.dimassa@gmail.com</a>> \
wrote:<br> >>>><br>
>>>> I CC Nico Sica, our PR person, and Giovanni Martinelli, \
our developement<br> >>>> leader, so that KDE-promo has the \
contacts of the<br> >>>> persons in the "control \
room".<br> >>>><br>
>>>> Then I CC Michele Tameni our "worst enemy" Gnome \
fanboy and itsme<br> >>>> developer :-)<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi all!<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Btw, it is not itsme talking to KDE here, it is Vincenzo \
speaking. Only<br> >>>> Giovanni and Nico can speak for \
itsme.<br> >>>><br>
>>>> I answer inline ...<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Jos Poortvliet<br>
>>>> <<a \
href="mailto:jospoortvliet@gmail.com">jospoortvliet@gmail.com</a>> \
wrote:<br> >>><br>
>>> <snip><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Maybe it's worth an interview or you guys can host \
a meeting or<br> >>>>> something sometime, that's a \
neath way of getting closer to the<br> >>>>> KDE \
community.<br> >>>><br>
>>>> Nico, Giovanni: what about a meeting or hosting? Even \
skype call<br> >>>> could be a nice start point.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Depending on what and how much you do with KDE technology a \
story on the<br> >>> dot might be possible. That's quite a \
high-profile site with many<br> >>> other news sites picking it \
up.<br> >>><br>
>>> <snip><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> You know the effect that the 4.0 release had on Gtk/Gnome \
people...<br> >>>> we are not there anymore, but it still hurts \
sometimes. (I'm not<br> >>>> blaming the 4.0 release, but \
we must admit it gave new energies to<br> >>>> so many trolls). \
Maybe talking with KDE people who are good at<br> >>>> \
communicating it could emerge how much KDE technologies shine today<br> \
>>>> :-)<br> >>><br>
>>> Well, the 4.0 release has hurt some users (due to \
distributions shipping<br> >>> it despite our discouragement), but \
since then our developer<br> >>> force has doubled. For \
developers the 4.0 release was great - a<br> >>> framework which \
is technically ahead of whatever MS and Apple can throw at<br> >>> \
us.<br> >>><br>
>>>> Well, lets me "patch" this part of my previous \
email: we studied<br> >>>> and internally documented many KDE \
technologies (plamsa, akonadi,<br> >>>> nepomuk, soprano, \
strigi, -virtuoso-, and others I can't remember<br> >>>> \
right now)... we had meetings where everyone else had to<br> \
>>>> listen/learn about those pieces of software. Then we \
decided to<br> >>>> start using soprano+sesame2... I was \
involved in the implementation<br> >>>> of a basic backend for \
soprano then moved back to GUI stuff.<br> >>>><br>
>>>> Look at the following slides (particularly slide 82) for \
a<br> >>>> description of what role soprano played<br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.slideshare.net/itsmesrl/itsme-lezione-usi-lugano" \
target="_blank">http://www.slideshare.net/itsmesrl/itsme-lezione-usi-lugano</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> Interesting.<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Since then we had problems with soprano and a guy in our \
team<br> >>>> started experimenting with tracker. He \
immediately felt better with<br> >>>> tracker (he is a \
Gtk/Gnome kind of person :-P), and the whole team<br> >>>> was \
convinced that using tracker + DIY (do it yourself) would be<br> \
>>>> better than trying to fix soprano (wich because of sesame \
was<br> >>>> really feature missing at the time). Since then \
they migrated<br> >>>> Guglielmo (the itsme equivalent of \
nepomuk-kde) and AVFS (will have<br> >>>> a new name shortly, \
basically it is a fuse overlay over the RDF<br> >>>> storage, \
sort of like KIO::nepomuk) to tracker.<br> >>><br>
>>> Well, that is unfortunate as it is my understanding from \
Sebastian<br> >>> Trueg's website that the new virtuosa \
backend for Soprano kind'a solves the<br> >>> problems it \
has... <a href="http://trueg.wordpress.com/" \
target="_blank">http://trueg.wordpress.com/</a><br> >>><br>
>>>> Our initial Guglielmo code will hopefully be released \
as<br> >>>> open-source in a month or so.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> So they know what the technologies do, and they tried to \
use<br> >>>> them... Where I wrote "our developers not \
understanding the benefit<br> >>>> of the Nepomuk integration \
with the rest of KDE products" please<br> >>>> read \
"our developers not evaluating the benefits of the Nepomuk<br> \
>>>> integration with the other KDE technologies more than the \
efforts<br> >>>> needed to fix Nepomuk/Soprano".<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> In my opinion what my team is not \
"understanding" is that the<br> >>>> flexibility and \
the tight integration of KDE technologies is really<br> >>>> \
huge compared to the cost of "fixing it when it does not work for<br> \
>>>> your needs".<br> >>><br>
>>> Yes, I guess that's something really worth communicating. \
It takes a<br> >>> while to get the infrastructure up and running \
but once you do you<br> >>> can get features others spend months \
on in a couple of hours.<br> >>><br>
>>>>> Tracker is really not flexible enough for what you \
want to do, as<br> >>>>> far as I can tell.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I have the same impression, but I guess that experimenting \
both tracker<br> >>>> and soprano is added value to itsme and \
KDE and Gnome :-)<br> >>>><br>
>>>> Maybe we could write a post about the switch and its \
reasons.<br> >>><br>
>>> That would be interesting - if anyone on your team could blog \
about that,<br> >>> I can link to it from <a \
href="http://planet.kde.org" target="_blank">planet.kde.org</a>. Or even \
more interesting,<br> >>> talk about it with Sebastian ;-)<br>
>>><br>
>>>>> How about we get a Nepomuk person to your company to \
help you guys out?<br> >>>><br>
>>>> I would love to meet people from the Nepomuk team (we \
contacted<br> >>>> Sebastian Trueg while working on soprano and \
also submitted some patches)<br> >>><br>
>>> Cool. I guess you contacted developers using IRC or \
mailinglists or<br> >>> personal mail? This works best when it \
comes to getting answers ;-)<br> >>><br>
>>> Of course when it comes to making decisions on technology \
there are a<br> >>> couple of companies in the KDE ecosystem who \
can help with that. For<br> >>> example KDAB, BasysKom, KO GmbH \
and Collabora.<br> >>><br>
>>> To get down to business:<br>
>>><br>
>>> - I would love to hear a bit more about your usage of KDE \
technologies,<br> >>> that might lead to a dot story. We can take \
it from there and see if there<br> >>> are more ways to cooperate \
in the marketing<br> >>> and promo department.<br>
>>><br>
>>> - I will ask Sebastian Trueg to get in contact with you and \
see if he<br> >>> can help out on the Nepomuk things.<br>
>>><br>
>>> - When it comes to technical questions you should really \
contact the<br> >>> appropriate developers through IRC, \
mailinglists etc, if you need<br> >>> help ask me. For more \
in-depth consultancy contact one of the KDE<br> >>> \
businesses.<br> >>><br>
>>> Did I miss anything?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Greetings,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Jos Poortvliet KDE Marketing<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Stéphane Lauričre<br>
>> Mandriva <a href="http://mandriva.com" \
target="_blank">http://mandriva.com</a><br> >> Mobile: +33 6 45 81 62 \
02<br> >> <a href="http://twitter.com/arkub" \
target="_blank">http://twitter.com/arkub</a><br> ><br>
><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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