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List: kde-pim
Subject: Re: Simplifying Korganizer
From: Olivier Churlaud <olivier () churlaud ! com>
Date: 2017-09-04 5:14:49
Message-ID: 07620533-DF22-4ADA-805A-CE92EFB05A3E () churlaud ! com
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Sorry for top-posting: I'm on my phone...
I had no idea about all the features you exposed, so posting here was relevant :)
I'll look into the options you detailed...
Cheers,
Olivier
Le 4 septembre 2017 05:49:32 GMT+02:00, "Daniel Vrátil" <dvratil@kde.org> a écrit :
>On Sunday, 3 September 2017 23:35:12 CEST Olivier Churlaud wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I would like to do a very bold proposition.
>>
>> To give some context, Korganizer is the KDE application I use the
>most after
>> KMail. And even though, I have trouble to switch between the views
>that are
>> quite mixed :
>>
>> - Agenda
>> - Month
>> - Timeline
>> - Tasks
>> - Journal
>>
>> Korganizer's strenght is in the event management : so I imagine a
>calendar,
>> with 3 views:
>> - all the events in a list,
>> - an agenda (with a focus on a month or a week or a day)
>> - timelines (without focus, just endless lines that loads when
>shown, or
>> based on the 3 agenda focus).
>>
>> First comment here : Month shall be a subset of agenda, which is
>currently
>> not the case, and I find it always strange.
>
>Agenda has some very special features that make no sense in month view
>- for
>example you can display the day's/week's agenda for each calendar next
>to each
>other, rather than mixed into a single view. This makes no sense in
>month
>view. So code-wise the separation makes sense. UI-wise, there can be
>improvements, e.g. just by having "Day", "Week", "Month" buttons in the
>
>toolbar.
>
>> Tasks: Now that Zanshin is mature, why do we need to have tasks in
>> Korganizer? Zanshin beeing well integrated in Kontact, I would remove
>that
>> from korganizer, making it easier to use.
>
>Zanshin can be a good alternative to Tasks, but it lacks lots of the
>funcionality and richness that KOrganizer has for tasks, as Zanshin is
>designed with certain workflow in mind. I'm fairly sure many people,
>especially
>in enterprise, would not like that.
>
>It would also requires Zanshin to become a KDE Applications (it's in
>Extragear) and start having regular releases, which is up to Kévin.
>
>>
>> And what is Journal? I have no answer for this, but I think that a
>> specialized application integrated in Korganizer would anyway be
>better.
>
>Journal is like your diary - you can create journal logs for specific
>dates.
>Useful for meeting logs.
>
>Why do you think that a dedicated application would be better? UX/UI
>wise I'm
>pretty sure this could be fixed on KOrganizer level - like not showing
>event-
>only calendars in Journal etc.) Code-wise it would not help at all,
>since you
>would be recreating lots of the code that KOrganizer already has and
>shares
>between events, tasks and journals....we want less code to maintain,
>not more
>;)
>
>>
>> This would drastically simplify the toolbar menu, and the Korganizer
>code.
>> In term of UX, currently it's hard to know in which view and which
>content
>> we are : events ? journal ? tasks ? are they the same content ? well
>if
>> not, being in the same window with the exact same menus is very
>strange for
>> users....
>
>On one hand, that's the beauty of it: a uniform UI for everything. I
>would
>hate it if I would have to toggle visible tasks differently than
>visible
>events just because they would be different applications...
>
>>
>>
>> What do you think ? If you think it is relevant and a good idea, I'm
>ok to
>> do a patch in this direction. But since it would be quite a
>destructive
>> patch, I think we must talk about this. And I'm open to discussion
>and
>> argumentation, if it is possible.
>
>I would prefer a constructive patch instead :-) Identify the actual
>issues and
>create solutions for them (e.g. "Remove 'Agenda' from toolbar", "Make
>'Day'
>and 'Week' actions enabled even if 'Month' is selected", etc.). I'm
>sure many
>of those issues can be fixed just by having a different KXmlUI rc file
>for
>standalone KOrganizer and for KParts....
>
>
>Dan
>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Olivier
>
>
>--
>Daniel Vrátil
>www.dvratil.cz | dvratil@kde.org
>IRC: dvratil on Freenode (#kde, #kontact, #akonadi, #fedora-kde)
>
>GPG Key: 0x4D69557AECB13683
>Fingerprint: 0ABD FA55 A4E6 BEA9 9A83 EA97 4D69 557A ECB1 3683
--
Envoyé de mon appareil Android avec Courriel K-9 Mail. Veuillez excuser ma brièveté.
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<html><head></head><body>Sorry for top-posting: I'm on my phone...<br>
<br>
I had no idea about all the features you exposed, so posting here was relevant :)<br>
<br>
I'll look into the options you detailed...<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Olivier<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">Le 4 septembre 2017 05:49:32 GMT+02:00, "Daniel \
Vrátil" <dvratil@kde.org> a écrit :<blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); \
padding-left: 1ex;"> <pre class="k9mail">On Sunday, 3 September 2017 23:35:12 CEST \
Olivier Churlaud wrote:<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt \
1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hello,<br /> <br /> I \
would like to do a very bold proposition.<br /> <br /> To give some context, \
Korganizer is the KDE application I use the most after<br /> KMail. And even though, \
I have trouble to switch between the views that are<br /> quite mixed :<br /> <br /> \
- Agenda<br /> - Month<br /> - Timeline<br /> - Tasks<br /> - Journal<br /> <br \
/> Korganizer's strenght is in the event management : so I imagine a calendar,<br /> \
with 3 views:<br /> - all the events in a list,<br /> - an agenda (with a focus on \
a month or a week or a day)<br /> - timelines (without focus, just endless lines \
that loads when shown, or<br /> based on the 3 agenda focus).<br /> <br /> First \
comment here : Month shall be a subset of agenda, which is currently<br /> not the \
case, and I find it always strange.<br /></blockquote><br />Agenda has some very \
special features that make no sense in month view - for <br />example you can display \
the day's/week's agenda for each calendar next to each <br />other, rather than mixed \
into a single view. This makes no sense in month <br />view. So code-wise the \
separation makes sense. UI-wise, there can be <br />improvements, e.g. just by having \
"Day", "Week", "Month" buttons in the <br />toolbar.<br \
/><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; \
border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> Tasks: Now that Zanshin is \
mature, why do we need to have tasks in<br /> Korganizer? Zanshin beeing well \
integrated in Kontact, I would remove that<br /> from korganizer, making it easier to \
use.<br /></blockquote><br />Zanshin can be a good alternative to Tasks, but it lacks \
lots of the <br />funcionality and richness that KOrganizer has for tasks, as Zanshin \
is <br />designed with certain workflow in mind. I'm fairly sure many people, \
especially <br />in enterprise, would not like that.<br /><br />It would also \
requires Zanshin to become a KDE Applications (it's in <br />Extragear) and start \
having regular releases, which is up to Kévin.<br /><br /><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; \
padding-left: 1ex;"> <br /> And what is Journal? I have no answer for this, but I \
think that a<br /> specialized application integrated in Korganizer would anyway be \
better.<br /></blockquote><br />Journal is like your diary - you can create journal \
logs for specific dates. <br />Useful for meeting logs.<br /><br />Why do you think \
that a dedicated application would be better? UX/UI wise I'm <br />pretty sure this \
could be fixed on KOrganizer level - like not showing event-<br />only calendars in \
Journal etc.) Code-wise it would not help at all, since you <br />would be recreating \
lots of the code that KOrganizer already has and shares <br />between events, tasks \
and journals....we want less code to maintain, not more <br />;)<br /><br \
/><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px \
solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> <br /> This would drastically simplify the \
toolbar menu, and the Korganizer code.<br /> In term of UX, currently it's hard to \
know in which view and which content<br /> we are : events ? journal ? tasks ? are \
they the same content ? well if<br /> not, being in the same window with the exact \
same menus is very strange for<br /> users....<br /></blockquote><br />On one hand, \
that's the beauty of it: a uniform UI for everything. I would <br />hate it if I \
would have to toggle visible tasks differently than visible <br />events just because \
they would be different applications...<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: \
1ex;"> <br /> <br /> What do you think ? If you think it is relevant and a good idea, \
I'm ok to<br /> do a patch in this direction. But since it would be quite a \
destructive<br /> patch, I think we must talk about this. And I'm open to discussion \
and<br /> argumentation, if it is possible.<br /></blockquote><br />I would prefer a \
constructive patch instead :-) Identify the actual issues and <br />create solutions \
for them (e.g. "Remove 'Agenda' from toolbar", "Make 'Day' <br />and \
'Week' actions enabled even if 'Month' is selected", etc.). I'm sure many <br \
/>of those issues can be fixed just by having a different KXmlUI rc file for <br \
/>standalone KOrganizer and for KParts....<br /><br /><br />Dan<br /><br \
/><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px \
solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> <br /> Cheers,<br /> Olivier<br \
/></blockquote><br /></pre></blockquote></div><br>
-- <br>
Envoyé de mon appareil Android avec Courriel K-9 Mail. Veuillez excuser ma \
brièveté.</body></html>
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