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List:       kde-pim
Subject:    RFC Nominate Cornelius for KEPIM admin (was Re: [Kde-pim] KDE PIM
From:       Don Sanders <sanders () kde ! org>
Date:       2005-01-21 5:39:13
Message-ID: 200501211539.14442.sanders () kde ! org
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On Sunday 16 January 2005 23:30, Michael Brade wrote:
> On Friday 14 January 2005 01:09, Don Sanders wrote:
> > On Thursday 13 January 2005 11:05, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
> > > There is
> > > nothing to gain from causing conflicts. That makes me pretty
> > > confident that the inherent potential of solving conflicts is
> > > big enough to ensure a healthy development for the future.
> >
> > Normally conflicts arise because someone can gain something but
> > only at the expense of another.
>
> Yes, basically egoism is the keyword. But the kdepim community is
> rather small and all of us are working together almost selflessly
> to create something that matches our dreams and that is pleasant to
> work with. To have something to be proud of (the reason for the
> almost) and to make our users happy. We generally don't expect to
> get something back but do the development because its fun.
>
> This is the reason it worked so well up to now and still continues
> to do so. Problems only arise if egoistic motives are the reason
> code is written. I think and hope this is not the case yet, hence
> we don't need conflict resolution apart from the already existing
> common sense.
>
> > As a project becomes more successful it becomes a more
> > attractive target. It's not so much those inside the community
> > that are my concern, my concern is more those outside the
> > community who covet the possessions of the community, who covet
> > control over the code.
>
> Then your concern is no concern. If someone steps into the pim
> community from outside the whole pim community will reject anything
> that might "attack" it. Our strong company is our defense. Your
> concern seems more to be that someone from outside steps in and is
> supported by one or more of the pim developers. This, however, is
> unlikely if the above mentioned selflessness is true for all pim
> developers.
>
> > > I'm not sure we would gain
> > > anything from a formal conflict resolution process as it
> > > necessarily only can be based on cooperation from all sides.
> >
> > An effective conflict resolution process does require buy in from
> > the majority, I agree. What the kdepim community has to gain is
> > the same thing any community does. They can preserve their
> > ability to resolve conflicts peacefully through negotiation in a
> > civil way, rather than necessitating that they be solved through
> > strength in a barbaric way.
>
> Exactly. And this is what we do already. And it is the reason we
> don't need formal procedures.
>
> I even think formal procedures make conflicts a lot more likely
> since they tend to make people forget their common sense which is
> because something else is taking the responsibility away from them:
> the written rules.
>
> > > I also think we should design the procedures of our community
> > > for harmony and not for conflict.
>
> That's my very feeling as well. I think this is the most important
> goal altogether and summarizes our mission as precise as ever
> possible! :-)
>
> > I'm not actually asking that a system be set up now. But what I
> > think would be fruitful is if contributors became more aware of
> > the importance of these issues, and how normal and common sense
> > it is to have such procedures.
>
> No, I think it is more important to think about and to be aware of
> why and when conflicts could arise at all, and then fix this. I.e.,
> fix the cause, not the consequence.
>
> > Personally I'm not motivated to contribute to code that doesn't
> > have a conflict resolution process and I'm concerned about such
> > code being in kdepim. It's like building a house on sand.
>
> To say it bluntly: if I do understand you correctly and if this is
> really what you think and the reason you didn't contribute a lot
> lately, I don't think you fit quite into the kde(pim) community.
> The code we write ends up in public domain and will have a free
> license. This is not changed by a conflict resolution process. We
> do not have (m)any rights on it, if anyone wants that he has to go
> and write proprietary code.

Congratulations Micheal, if your intent is to make me feel unwelcome 
you have succeeded. Especially I liked the questioning of my 
contribution, I think that's a terrific insult.

Stepping back a bit, this is what I'm referring to when I talk about 
difficult people. People will come into the project, make a  
contribution and then begin to insult and bully others. It's a sad, 
unfortunate and very real feature of open development.

It's a kind of tragedy of the commons, that eventually destroys open 
projects and communities. It's not healthy, one stubborn or just 
annoyed person can break the harmony of a decision making by 
consensus system. One bad apple can destroy a barrel of happy fun 
loving apples.

Maybe working outside of kde cvs and starting over again is the 
solution, it is an option that I feel I have a duty to consider. But 
I've invested too much time and effort, I care too much about the 
project to be willing to give up easily :)

Instead, I think, it is my personal feeling, that Cornelius has done 
an outstanding job of acting as a mediator for KDEPIM, and that it 
would be beneficial for KDEPIM to have Cornelius' contribution 
recognized by KDE giving him cvs privs to resolve conflicts in 
KDEPIM. I believe this would be best for the long term interests of 
KDEPIM of KDE as a whole.

I don't think it's necessary for Cornelius to have absolute power, the 
other KDE cvs admins can retain whatever overall control they 
currently possess.

I'm interested in knowing what other people think. Especially I'm 
interested in knowing whether Cornelius would be willing to accept 
such a nomination if I were to make it on the kde-core list.

Don Sanders
KDEPIM Co-founder (though I admit it doesn't count for much anymore)
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