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List: kde-panel-devel
Subject: Re: Review Request: Device notifier: show mounted device and path
From: "Aaron J. Seigo" <aseigo () kde ! org>
Date: 2012-10-13 0:37:25
Message-ID: 20121013003725.26277.35999 () vidsolbach ! de
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> On Oct. 8, 2012, 9:52 a.m., Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > any application which expects the user to access files on disk but does not \
> > provide a clear representation of mounted / removable devices is broken. there's \
> > no point in degrading our own primary UI for such fixable brokenness. can you \
> > provide a (short :) list of any such broken applications which are high-profile / \
> > in common use?
>
> Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> ah, and i should also add that tooltips on items in popup windows as it leads to a \
> matryoshka doll effect that is most inelegant visually, so we try to avoid such \
> things unless there is a very good reason for them.
> Jonathan Marten wrote:
> I think too that nested popups/tooltips look inelegant, but since it was Jacopo's \
> suggestion I though it may be at least worth trying it out...
> In my experience hardly any non-KDE applications are able to show or control the \
> mounting of removable devices - most of them stick to the hopeless Gnome file \
> selector, and not all of them can be made to work well with KDE integration. \
> Certainly in my daily use neither mozilla, libreoffice/openoffice, gimp or \
> googleearth identify removable devices. Inkscape is the only major application \
> that at least tries. They are indeed broken (by design), but they are unlikely to \
> be fixed before the heat death of the universe.
> Jacopo De Simoi wrote:
> My point was rather to stuff that information in some --already present-- tooltip, \
> such as the one appearing hovering over the capacity bar or the device icon. But \
> yes this is indeed still visually unpleasant. Besides, I agree with Aaron about \
> creating some "Technical info" pane with all this information, which could be \
> triggered by context menu. I do not want to clutter the ui any further. It's \
> already pretty full.
> Cheers
Mozilla and L/O-Office both use the KDE provided file dialogs here, and that is \
because I am using an OS that does good integration (openSUSE in this case; though \
certainly not the only one). Google Earth also ought to if it is using Qt with the \
platform plugin support. GIMP, well, lost causes abound I suppose. but it is not \
nearly the horror show that it may seem to be. And yes, such applications are broken \
by design, and no, I won't lower Plasma to their standards. We've been through this \
same sort of situation before: when we bow to the lowest common denominator, nothing \
improves; when we keep our own standards, other projects rise to them. (Even if it \
takes time)
- Aaron J.
-----------------------------------------------------------
This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/106755/#review20057
-----------------------------------------------------------
On Oct. 12, 2012, 9:41 a.m., Jonathan Marten wrote:
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
> http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/106755/
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> (Updated Oct. 12, 2012, 9:41 a.m.)
>
>
> Review request for KDE Base Apps and Plasma.
>
>
> Description
> -------
>
> If a removable device is mounted using the Plasma device notifier, there is no \
> indication of what the Unix name of the device is or where it is mounted. This \
> information may be useful to the user for (a) accessing the mounted device from \
> non-KDE applications, or (b) troubleshooting mounting or unmounting problems.
> The attached patch shows this information when the device is hovered over, just \
> above the "N actions for this device" text. Depending on whether or not the device \
> is mounted, there are three possibilities that can be shown here:
> /dev/XXX when not mounted
> /dev/XXX mounted on /media/YYYY when mounted
> /dev/XXX mounted if mounted but the mount point is not available
>
> Please be gentle, this is my first QML patch :-)
>
>
> This addresses bug 196939.
> http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196939
>
>
> Diffs
> -----
>
> plasma/generic/applets/devicenotifier/package/contents/ui/DeviceItem.qml 2a9b3f7
>
> Diff: http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/106755/diff/
>
>
> Testing
> -------
>
> Built kde-workspace with this change, observed operation and display of device \
> notifier with a selection of removable devices.
>
> Screenshots
> -----------
>
> Device notifier with mounted device
> http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/106755/s/756/
> Tooltip with mounted device
> http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/106755/s/769/
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jonathan Marten
>
>
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This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
<a href="http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/106755/">http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/106755/</a>
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<br />
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <p style="margin-top: 0;">On October 8th, 2012, 9:52 a.m., <b>Aaron J. \
Seigo</b> wrote:</p> <blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid \
#d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;">any application which expects the user to access files on disk but does \
not provide a clear representation of mounted / removable devices is broken. \
there's no point in degrading our own primary UI for such fixable brokenness. can \
you provide a (short :) list of any such broken applications which are high-profile / \
in common use?</pre> </blockquote>
<p>On October 8th, 2012, 9:54 a.m., <b>Aaron J. Seigo</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">ah, and i should also \
add that tooltips on items in popup windows as it leads to a matryoshka doll effect \
that is most inelegant visually, so we try to avoid such things unless there is a \
very good reason for them.</pre> </blockquote>
<p>On October 9th, 2012, 8:56 a.m., <b>Jonathan Marten</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">I think too that nested \
popups/tooltips look inelegant, but since it was Jacopo's suggestion I though it \
may be at least worth trying it out...
In my experience hardly any non-KDE applications are able to show or control the \
mounting of removable devices - most of them stick to the hopeless Gnome file \
selector, and not all of them can be made to work well with KDE integration. \
Certainly in my daily use neither mozilla, libreoffice/openoffice, gimp or \
googleearth identify removable devices. Inkscape is the only major application that \
at least tries. They are indeed broken (by design), but they are unlikely to be \
fixed before the heat death of the universe.</pre> </blockquote>
<p>On October 11th, 2012, 11:34 a.m., <b>Jacopo De Simoi</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">My point was rather to \
stuff that information in some --already present-- tooltip, such as the one appearing \
hovering over the capacity bar or the device icon. But yes this is indeed still \
visually unpleasant. Besides, I agree with Aaron about creating some "Technical info" \
pane with all this information, which could be triggered by context menu. I do not \
want to clutter the ui any further. It's already pretty full.
Cheers </pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">Mozilla and L/O-Office \
both use the KDE provided file dialogs here, and that is because I am using an OS \
that does good integration (openSUSE in this case; though certainly not the only \
one). Google Earth also ought to if it is using Qt with the platform plugin support. \
GIMP, well, lost causes abound I suppose. but it is not nearly the horror show that \
it may seem to be. And yes, such applications are broken by design, and no, I \
won't lower Plasma to their standards. We've been through this same sort of \
situation before: when we bow to the lowest common denominator, nothing improves; \
when we keep our own standards, other projects rise to them. (Even if it takes \
time)</pre> <br />
<p>- Aaron J.</p>
<br />
<p>On October 12th, 2012, 9:41 a.m., Jonathan Marten wrote:</p>
<table bgcolor="#fefadf" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="8" \
style="background-image: \
url('http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/rb/images/review_request_box_top_bg.png'); \
background-position: left top; background-repeat: repeat-x; border: 1px black \
solid;"> <tr>
<td>
<div>Review request for KDE Base Apps and Plasma.</div>
<div>By Jonathan Marten.</div>
<p style="color: grey;"><i>Updated Oct. 12, 2012, 9:41 a.m.</i></p>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Description </h1>
<table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" \
style="border: 1px solid #b8b5a0"> <tr>
<td>
<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;">If a removable device is mounted using the Plasma device notifier, there \
is no indication of what the Unix name of the device is or where it is mounted. This \
information may be useful to the user for (a) accessing the mounted device from \
non-KDE applications, or (b) troubleshooting mounting or unmounting problems.
The attached patch shows this information when the device is hovered over, just above \
the "N actions for this device" text. Depending on whether or not the \
device is mounted, there are three possibilities that can be shown here:
/dev/XXX when not mounted
/dev/XXX mounted on /media/YYYY when mounted
/dev/XXX mounted if mounted but the mount point is not available
Please be gentle, this is my first QML patch :-)</pre>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Testing </h1>
<table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" style="border: \
1px solid #b8b5a0"> <tr>
<td>
<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;">Built kde-workspace with this change, observed operation and display of \
device notifier with a selection of removable devices. </pre>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<div style="margin-top: 1.5em;">
<b style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Bugs: </b>
<a href="http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196939">196939</a>
</div>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Diffs</b> </h1>
<ul style="margin-left: 3em; padding-left: 0;">
<li>plasma/generic/applets/devicenotifier/package/contents/ui/DeviceItem.qml <span \
style="color: grey">(2a9b3f7)</span></li>
</ul>
<p><a href="http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/106755/diff/" style="margin-left: \
3em;">View Diff</a></p>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Screenshots </h1>
<div>
<a href="http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/106755/s/756/"><img \
src="http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/images/2012/10/07/196939_400x100.png" \
style="border: 1px black solid;" alt="Device notifier with mounted device" /></a>
<a href="http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/106755/s/769/"><img \
src="http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/images/2012/10/12/196939c_400x100.png" \
style="border: 1px black solid;" alt="Tooltip with mounted device" /></a>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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