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List: kde-panel-devel
Subject: Re: Review Request: Add "Show Icon only" option to the tasks applet
From: "Aaron Seigo" <aseigo () kde ! org>
Date: 2010-08-24 16:57:38
Message-ID: 20100824165738.4660.51604 () vidsolbach ! de
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> On 2010-08-23 09:00:48, Marco Martin wrote:
> > this very patch appeared here for several times already.
> > and as usual, the question is: what real value gives over auto hiding the text \
> > when there is not enough space?
>
> Markus Slopianka wrote:
> If this patch works with the other one that implements launcher support, a Mac OS \
> X-like Dock (AFAIK it's similar in Win7) can be implemented without the need to get \
> 3rd party widgets. With a Dock-like setup I wouldn't want text other than tooltips.
>
> Beat Wolf wrote:
> i would actually agree on adding it from the feedback i get when i show kde to \
> people used to windows. it's one of the first things they ask for.
> Aaron Seigo wrote:
> the number of such features that have appeared over the years is immense, and \
> always people ask for those features ... as long as they are new in Windows. there \
> is no point in chasing taillights just to chase taillights. if the idea is a good \
> one, let's do it; if it isn't, let's not.
> Beat Wolf wrote:
> sure. i was just mentioning it because i for myself think its a good idea and other \
> people want it, so from my point of view if the patch has a good quality, and it's \
> actually using a feature that is there anyway, why not have it. But i see the other \
> point of views too and all have their merit i think.
> Todd wrote:
> I think that the question is not so much a question of why we shouldn't have titles \
> in the task manager, the question is why we need them. With grouping and the \
> ability in 4.5 to change between grouped windows by clicking on their thumbnail, at \
> least for me titles are just wasted space. I understand that for people without \
> compositing they are needed, and some people may still prefer them, but personally \
> they don't contribute anything, and they are huge relative to just the icons.
> I agree that the the current configuration interface for the task manager is \
> getting a bit crowded. However, there is a way to add the feature without \
> increasing the complexity of the dialog. Currently there are three grouping \
> options: "Do not group", "Manually", and "By Program Name". There is also an \
> checkox "Only when taskbar is full". The problem is that this option is only \
> meaningful in "By Program Name" mode, and in fact the checkbox is disabled when the \
> other two modes. So I would suggest getting rid of the checkbox and adding a \
> fourth option in the dropdown "When taskbar is full", or something along those \
> lines.
> Also, since plasma supports multiple categories in the configuration dialog, it may \
> be worthwhile splitting the current options into categories.
> Marco Martin wrote:
> > With grouping and the ability in 4.5 to change between grouped windows by \
> > clicking on their thumbnail, at least for me titles are just wasted space.
>
> well, i think in this case is really fake "wasted space" because i would agree if \
> the text would let to have less icons in the taskbar. but since when there is not \
> enough room the text gets disabled automatically, this is a no issue. without that \
> i really don't see use cases except making it look like windows
> Todd wrote:
> It isn't fake wasted space, there is still a bunch of text on there that fills up \
> the area while contributing nothing to me. I don't think it looks good. This has \
> nothing whatsoever to do with making it look like windows, I couldn't care less \
> what windows does. It has to do with not making it look cluttered and inelegant. \
> The text also contributes to the resizing of the panel, making the panel much \
> larger than it has to be. I could, of course, force the panel to be small, but \
> that works against me when I do have a lot of open windows, since it drastically \
> limits the number of windows I can work with easily.
> Further, when the text is removed the tasks still expand to fill the available \
> space, which looks really bad in my opinion. It makes sense when you want to show \
> the text is hidden, but not when you don't want to deal with the text at all.
"contributing nothing to me"
* a larger target (Fitt's "Law")
* disambiguation from other similar items
that may not matter to you, and i fully grant that. it matters to others, and we (the \
maintainers of this item) do not see enough value in option to turn the items into \
icons-only to include it in the tasks plasmoid directly.
i have, however, already described a way that you (and whomever else) can accomplish \
your goals. we aren't exclusive, plasma has been designed to allow differences of \
opinion, differences of goals. others have taken advantage of this with stasks, \
fancytasks, etc. you can do the same without having to convince anyone or ask \
anyone's permission. so instead of continuing this conversation which is going to \
lead nowhere other than to find out what we already know (namely: we disagree on this \
matter), let's get back to hacking. as soon as your window listing plasmoid is ready \
(you can develop it in playground until then), we can move it into kdereview and then \
move it on into the appropriate module. cheers ...
- Aaron
-----------------------------------------------------------
This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
http://reviewboard.kde.org/r/5078/#review7162
-----------------------------------------------------------
On 2010-08-22 13:52:33, Björn Ruberg wrote:
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
> http://reviewboard.kde.org/r/5078/
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> (Updated 2010-08-22 13:52:33)
>
>
> Review request for Plasma.
>
>
> Summary
> -------
>
> This patch adds the option to put the taskbar in an icon-only mode - similar as in \
> Windows 7 . This is an much requested feature in bugzilla. It is fairly simple and \
> just using features already existing in the code, adding an m_showIconOnly member \
> to the layout and the abstractitem plus the adaption of the config ui.
>
> This addresses bug 159480.
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159480
>
>
> Diffs
> -----
>
> /trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/desktop/applets/tasks/tasksConfig.ui 1166313
> /trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/desktop/applets/tasks/tasks.cpp 1166313
> /trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/desktop/applets/tasks/taskitemlayout.h 1166313
> /trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/desktop/applets/tasks/taskitemlayout.cpp \
> 1166313
> /trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/desktop/applets/tasks/abstracttaskitem.h \
> 1166313
> /trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/desktop/applets/tasks/abstracttaskitem.cpp \
> 1166313
> /trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/desktop/applets/tasks/taskgroupitem.h 1166313
> /trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/desktop/applets/tasks/taskgroupitem.cpp 1166313 \
>
> Diff: http://reviewboard.kde.org/r/5078/diff
>
>
> Testing
> -------
>
> Moved panel around and made sure it works. Looks actually pretty good this \
> icon-only mode!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Björn
>
>
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This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
<a href="http://reviewboard.kde.org/r/5078/">http://reviewboard.kde.org/r/5078/</a>
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<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <p style="margin-top: 0;">On August 23rd, 2010, 9 a.m., <b>Marco Martin</b> \
wrote:</p> <blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; \
padding-left: 10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; \
white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">this very \
patch appeared here for several times already. and as usual, the question is: what \
real value gives over auto hiding the text when there is not enough space?</pre> \
</blockquote>
<p>On August 23rd, 2010, 9:53 a.m., <b>Markus Slopianka</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">If this patch works with \
the other one that implements launcher support, a Mac OS X-like Dock (AFAIK it's \
similar in Win7) can be implemented without the need to get 3rd party widgets. With a \
Dock-like setup I wouldn't want text other than tooltips.</pre> </blockquote>
<p>On August 23rd, 2010, 9:57 a.m., <b>Beat Wolf</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">i would actually agree \
on adding it from the feedback i get when i show kde to people used to windows. \
it's one of the first things they ask for.</pre> </blockquote>
<p>On August 23rd, 2010, 10:52 p.m., <b>Aaron Seigo</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">the number of such \
features that have appeared over the years is immense, and always people ask for \
those features ... as long as they are new in Windows. there is no point in chasing \
taillights just to chase taillights. if the idea is a good one, let's do it; if \
it isn't, let's not.</pre> </blockquote>
<p>On August 24th, 2010, 8:02 a.m., <b>Beat Wolf</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">sure. i was just \
mentioning it because i for myself think its a good idea and other people want it, so \
from my point of view if the patch has a good quality, and it's actually using a \
feature that is there anyway, why not have it. But i see the other point of views too \
and all have their merit i think.</pre> </blockquote>
<p>On August 24th, 2010, 2:25 p.m., <b>Todd</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">I think that the \
question is not so much a question of why we shouldn't have titles in the task \
manager, the question is why we need them. With grouping and the ability in 4.5 to \
change between grouped windows by clicking on their thumbnail, at least for me titles \
are just wasted space. I understand that for people without compositing they are \
needed, and some people may still prefer them, but personally they don't \
contribute anything, and they are huge relative to just the icons.
I agree that the the current configuration interface for the task manager is getting \
a bit crowded. However, there is a way to add the feature without increasing the \
complexity of the dialog. Currently there are three grouping options: "Do not \
group", "Manually", and "By Program Name". There is also an \
checkox "Only when taskbar is full". The problem is that this option is \
only meaningful in "By Program Name" mode, and in fact the checkbox is \
disabled when the other two modes. So I would suggest getting rid of the checkbox \
and adding a fourth option in the dropdown "When taskbar is full", or \
something along those lines.
Also, since plasma supports multiple categories in the configuration dialog, it may \
be worthwhile splitting the current options into categories.</pre> </blockquote>
<p>On August 24th, 2010, 2:32 p.m., <b>Marco Martin</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">> With grouping and \
the ability in 4.5 to change between grouped windows by clicking on their thumbnail, \
at least for me titles are just wasted space.
well, i think in this case is really fake "wasted space" because i would \
agree if the text would let to have less icons in the taskbar. but since when there \
is not enough room the text gets disabled automatically, this is a no issue. without \
that i really don't see use cases except making it look like windows</pre> \
</blockquote>
<p>On August 24th, 2010, 4:17 p.m., <b>Todd</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">It isn't fake wasted \
space, there is still a bunch of text on there that fills up the area while \
contributing nothing to me. I don't think it looks good. This has nothing \
whatsoever to do with making it look like windows, I couldn't care less what \
windows does. It has to do with not making it look cluttered and inelegant.
The text also contributes to the resizing of the panel, making the panel much larger \
than it has to be. I could, of course, force the panel to be small, but that works \
against me when I do have a lot of open windows, since it drastically limits the \
number of windows I can work with easily.
Further, when the text is removed the tasks still expand to fill the available space, \
which looks really bad in my opinion. It makes sense when you want to show the text \
is hidden, but not when you don't want to deal with the text at all.</pre> \
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">"contributing \
nothing to me"
* a larger target (Fitt's "Law")
* disambiguation from other similar items
that may not matter to you, and i fully grant that. it matters to others, and we (the \
maintainers of this item) do not see enough value in option to turn the items into \
icons-only to include it in the tasks plasmoid directly.
i have, however, already described a way that you (and whomever else) can accomplish \
your goals. we aren't exclusive, plasma has been designed to allow differences of \
opinion, differences of goals. others have taken advantage of this with stasks, \
fancytasks, etc. you can do the same without having to convince anyone or ask \
anyone's permission. so instead of continuing this conversation which is going to \
lead nowhere other than to find out what we already know (namely: we disagree on this \
matter), let's get back to hacking. as soon as your window listing plasmoid is \
ready (you can develop it in playground until then), we can move it into kdereview \
and then move it on into the appropriate module. cheers ...</pre> <br />
<p>- Aaron</p>
<br />
<p>On August 22nd, 2010, 1:52 p.m., Björn Ruberg wrote:</p>
<table bgcolor="#fefadf" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="8" \
style="background-image: \
url('http://reviewboard.kde.orgrb/images/review_request_box_top_bg.png'); \
background-position: left top; background-repeat: repeat-x; border: 1px black \
solid;"> <tr>
<td>
<div>Review request for Plasma.</div>
<div>By Björn Ruberg.</div>
<p style="color: grey;"><i>Updated 2010-08-22 13:52:33</i></p>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Description </h1>
<table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" style="border: \
1px solid #b8b5a0"> <tr>
<td>
<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;">This patch adds the option to put the taskbar in an icon-only mode - \
similar as in Windows 7 . This is an much requested feature in bugzilla. It is fairly \
simple and just using features already existing in the code, adding an m_showIconOnly \
member to the layout and the abstractitem plus the adaption of the config ui.</pre> \
</td> </tr>
</table>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Testing </h1>
<table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" style="border: \
1px solid #b8b5a0"> <tr>
<td>
<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;">Moved panel around and made sure it works. Looks actually pretty good \
this icon-only mode!</pre> </td>
</tr>
</table>
<div style="margin-top: 1.5em;">
<b style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Bugs: </b>
<a href="https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159480">159480</a>
</div>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Diffs</b> </h1>
<ul style="margin-left: 3em; padding-left: 0;">
<li>/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/desktop/applets/tasks/tasksConfig.ui <span \
style="color: grey">(1166313)</span></li>
<li>/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/desktop/applets/tasks/tasks.cpp <span \
style="color: grey">(1166313)</span></li>
<li>/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/desktop/applets/tasks/taskitemlayout.h <span \
style="color: grey">(1166313)</span></li>
<li>/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/desktop/applets/tasks/taskitemlayout.cpp \
<span style="color: grey">(1166313)</span></li>
<li>/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/desktop/applets/tasks/abstracttaskitem.h \
<span style="color: grey">(1166313)</span></li>
<li>/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/desktop/applets/tasks/abstracttaskitem.cpp \
<span style="color: grey">(1166313)</span></li>
<li>/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/desktop/applets/tasks/taskgroupitem.h <span \
style="color: grey">(1166313)</span></li>
<li>/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/desktop/applets/tasks/taskgroupitem.cpp \
<span style="color: grey">(1166313)</span></li>
</ul>
<p><a href="http://reviewboard.kde.org/r/5078/diff/" style="margin-left: 3em;">View \
Diff</a></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
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