[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] 

List:       kde-licensing
Subject:    Re: Live and let live
From:       Martin Schulze <joey () finlandia ! Infodrom ! North ! DE>
Date:       1998-10-10 17:50:11
[Download RAW message or body]

Matthias Ettrich wrote:
> 
> Let me summarize Debian's licensing problem without any pseudo-juridical
> nit-picking textual interpretations:
> 
> a) "It's ok for Debian to distribute KDE as a source package with an
> post-installation script that compiles and installs the stuff for the users."
> 
> b) "it's not ok, if Debian compiles the stuff before distribution and ships
> both the binary and the source code to make the installation process on the
> user's side faster."
>
> Although I have a rather bad opinion of the Debian guys, I just cannot believe
> that they are that irrational to claim that there is a significant, even
> ethical difference between both approaches. But following the recent

You did not notice that if someone is shipping binary packages (i.e. the
one that contains compiled and linked programs) contain linked programs,
did you?

> discussion on our mailing lists I almost get the impression that some of them
> really believe what they are saying. Naa, that can't be true. The fact that

Sure, that's why they work on Debian and not on Slackware, SuSE or Caldera
(just to name some examples where there is no distinction between free and
non-free programs).

> Debian also removed the KDE libraries (that cleary are not covered by their GPL
> interpretation since they are not distributed under the terms of the GPL),
> showed their real intention.

It's funny how you could know what Debian developers think.

I'm very sorry, but it is a general attitude of some core KDE developers
to not even try to look what others are doing but spreading junk around.

A KDE developer contacted Debian telling them that kdelibs is distributed
under a different license.  As a result this is being discussed right now
so if the kdelibs maintainer (who is also a core KDE developer) feels the
same he can re-upload the package and if there are no other problems it
can go back.  Your childish rant doesn't help anybody.  You should better
*try* to understand what others think.  There is always a tiny little
chance that oneself is not God and thus does make mistake and misunderstands
phrases.

As a reference and to prove that I'm not talking shit take a look at
http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/debian-devel-9810/msg00693.html

> In case some Debian developers read this mailing list: Guys, you don't like KDE
> since it encourages people to write software for it. Therefore you don't want

It's always funny to see how people overestimate themselves.

> to distribute it. That's fine with me. I would never dare to spam your mailing
> lists for that reason. So please stop spamming our mailing list.

I wonder if it is too difficult to investigate *who* brought this issue
to the KDE lists?  It was one KDE user who read freshmeat.  It's funny
that you call your own users spammers.  I'm happy that you can't refer
to me.

Ignoring the spamming reproach the initial mails prove that there
are still some KDE users who are concerned about problems and who
do NOT actively ignore upcoming problems.

> I still wish you could say this in public (Bruce Perens did it, for example)
> without publishing "licensing problems" statements that insult their readers
> intelligence. 

I don't know how many times one needs to repeat that (would a cronjob help?)
that the removal of KDE as well as releasing of a public statement does
not imply that Debian as project or as distribution has a dislike against
KDE as software (except for infringing licenses).

Debian has stated *several times* "fix your licences and KDE can come back.
The only thing that does NOT help with regard to this issue is ignorance
and arrogance at the KDE side.

> Come on,  the LInux world is large enough for both KDE and Debian. We let you
> work on your social mission, so please let us fullfil our mission to make Unix
> more friendly and powerful for users and application developers.

That's what Debian does.  If you would behave the same you would not
always shout rubbish at others.

	Joey

DISCLAIMER: This is my own oppinion, others may have others.

-- 
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct,
not tried it.  -- Donald E. Knuth

[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]