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List:       kde-kimageshop
Subject:    Log + Report of: IRC MEETING Monday 20:00 - 22:00 CET
From:       Boudewijn Rempt <boud () valdyas ! org>
Date:       2011-01-03 12:55:11
Message-ID: 201101031355.11721.boud () valdyas ! org
[Download RAW message or body]

On Thursday 30 December 2010, Adam C. wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 09:40:03 +0100, Boudewijn Rempt <boud@valdyas.org>  
> wrote:
> 
> > On Thursday 30 December 2010, Adam C. wrote:
> > 
> > > sorry that i couldn't attend. are there any logs or something?
> > I'm working on a log + report, but got sidetracked a bit by the release  
> > and caring for Irina.
> > 
> 
> ok, all the best for irina :)

It was a fun meeting. I've attached the log. These are the basic resolutions:

Sponsored development:

* We still have ~2400 euros left (though I'm behind on my administration)

* Silvio will finish his sponsorship in 2011. He would like Dmitry to fix the crop tool (see \
other mail in this thread), Lukas to focus on bad bugs and Pentalis to write a really good \
mixing brush.

* For 2011, we'll try to setup a fund-raiser to have one Krita developer work together with the \
Blender people on issues they have during their next project. Boud will contact Ton asap.

There might be movement on the topic of windows installers for Calligra, so it is not likely \
that we'll have to spend money on that.

LGM:

Lukas, Animtim, Billstei and Kubuntiac want to go to LGM. Lukas will present Krita, Animtim \
will do a workshop. I need an overview of everyone's travel and accomodation costs ASAP so I \
can send a proposal to the KDE e.V.

Sprint:

Boud will contact ingwa/troubalex to ask how to get the Linux Hotel for the Krita sprint. I'll \
do that this week. Then we can set a date and ask Claudia to help with the necessary visums.

Website:

Kubuntiac and boud will review the website. We'll create a cool projects for newcomers page. I \
also want a prominent features page.

Manual:

Not much is going to happen there for now. I'm still working on it, but my scalability is \
getting worse and worse, it seems.

-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org, http://www.krita.org


["krita_meeting.log" (text/x-log)]

27.12.2010-20:01 < slangkamp> meeting here or in another channel?
27.12.2010-20:01 < sgrosso> hi everyone, I am Silvio Grosso :-)
27.12.2010-20:01 < boud>  meeting here
27.12.2010-20:01 < boud> I'm preparing the introduction right now
27.12.2010-20:02 < Pentalis> Hi!
27.12.2010-20:02 < sgrosso> Hi Pentalis :-)
27.12.2010-20:02 < boud> if we have an incursion of users or new people who want to contribute, \
please, let's wait with the beginner's questions until after the meeting 27.12.2010-20:02 < \
plassy> slangkamp: hmm... yes... that could be right... but german wouldn't be the problem here \
:P ... but of course i don't know how it would look in japanese or hindu 27.12.2010-20:04 < \
boud> ok... 27.12.2010-20:04 < boud> please: Let's start the Krita-in-2010 and what'll we do in \
2011 meeting. 27.12.2010-20:04 < boud> we;re still missing dmitry, though
27.12.2010-20:04 < LukasT> hello
27.12.2010-20:04 < LukasT> I made it "é
27.12.2010-20:04 < boud> and he  was available around now, according to the doodle!
27.12.2010-20:05 < boud> LukasT: great!
27.12.2010-20:05 < boud> you rock!
27.12.2010-20:05 < boud> I'd like to start with a bit of an introduction -- and then we can \
start discussing how we can make 2011 even better than 2010 27.12.2010-20:06 < boud> We did a \
great job this year! Krita 2.3 really is ready to be used by real artists. Thanks to everybody. \
27.12.2010-20:06 < LukasT> sgrosso: hi, nice to meet you on-line :) 27.12.2010-20:06 < sgrosso> \
Hi Lukas ;-) 27.12.2010-20:06  * LukasT see boud doing psssst 
27.12.2010-20:06 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-20:06 < boud> ok...
27.12.2010-20:07 < boud> Reviewing the past year: I think we really did a great job. We've \
still got ~2400 euros in cash, but I still owe dmitry for december 27.12.2010-20:07 < boud> \
I've been sick... 27.12.2010-20:08 < boud> So we've got two people working paid part-time on \
krita: Lukas and Dmitry 27.12.2010-20:08 < boud> Silvio, Pentalis and I did discuss sponsorship \
for Pentalis, for the creation of a mixing brush up to and above gimp-paint standards -- this \
seems an important feature for the next release, to seduce more artists 27.12.2010-20:08 -!- \
dmitryK [~dmitryK@94.232.66.212] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-20:08 < boud> hi dmitryK 
27.12.2010-20:09 < boud> dmitryK: you might want to take me up on my offer of a shell account \
on valdyas.org, so you have access to the backlog :P 27.12.2010-20:09 < CyrilleB> :)
27.12.2010-20:09 < LukasT> dmitryK: http://pastebin.ca/2030720
27.12.2010-20:09 < boud> Krita 2.3 is about to be released, with just one known, reproducible \
crash bug (mpeg... !!!) 27.12.2010-20:09 < dmitryK> boud: when the meeting starts? I need to \
have a dinner 27.12.2010-20:09 < LukasT> dmitryK: now
27.12.2010-20:10 < boud> it started 9 minutes ago
27.12.2010-20:10 < boud> but I don't mind if you eat and attend at the same time.
27.12.2010-20:10 < boud> you're even allowed to speak with your mouth full of food!
27.12.2010-20:10 < Pentalis> Also known as eattending
27.12.2010-20:11 < LukasT> boud: more will follow about the introduction?
27.12.2010-20:12 < Kubuntiac> Pentalis: Groan! lol
27.12.2010-20:12 < boud> in 2010, we've had a great Krita sprint, introduced lots of people to \
hacking on Krita and -- I think -- finally got Krita out of the apology state! 27.12.2010-20:12 \
< Kubuntiac> \o/ 27.12.2010-20:12 < slangkamp> yay
27.12.2010-20:13 < boud> so... feel free to give your input about 2010, good and bad for now, \
then let's start making plans for 2011 27.12.2010-20:13 < LukasT> finally we can call it \
software :) 27.12.2010-20:13 < LukasT> Let me start
27.12.2010-20:14 < boud> sure, go ahead!
27.12.2010-20:14 < LukasT> I think this year for Krita was really great
27.12.2010-20:14 < slangkamp> it was!
27.12.2010-20:14 < LukasT> The two sponsored part-time developers and a lot of Google Summer Of \
Code slots was very moving thing in the community I think 27.12.2010-20:15 < Kubuntiac> It made \
lots of good news which I think raised community interest 27.12.2010-20:15 < Kubuntiac> All the \
stuff you guys did I mean 27.12.2010-20:15 < LukasT> Also there are really commited \
contributors of code, especially slangkamp and CyrilleB who did a lot of work in their spare \
time 27.12.2010-20:15 < LukasT> boud did great job with LWiK's and he started the manual
27.12.2010-20:16 < LukasT> and I think we managed to create good atmosphere where we mix \
sponsored work and hobby work without any conflicts 27.12.2010-20:17 < boud> there have been \
remarkably few fights in krita -- especially considering the size of our community and the \
level of activity. 27.12.2010-20:17 < boud> that's great
27.12.2010-20:17 < LukasT> I don't remember any fight, or was it?
27.12.2010-20:17 < slangkamp> me neither :)
27.12.2010-20:17 < boud> there was a big discussion some time ago without any resolution, so I \
had to call maintainer rights and make a decision 27.12.2010-20:18 < boud> which promptly meant \
everyone united and did what I hadn't decided -- but that was great :-) 27.12.2010-20:18 < \
boud> I don;t really remember the topic, though 27.12.2010-20:18 < Kubuntiac> lol
27.12.2010-20:19 < boud> For me, this year was shear madness, but that was mainly because of my \
new job. Being a cubible-hole hacker tended to leave me plenty of spare time for Krita \
27.12.2010-20:19 < LukasT> ok, I think I'm done :) 27.12.2010-20:19 < boud> working in my own \
company was different, especially since that work focussed aronud koffice -- still, I did make \
a fair number of commits 27.12.2010-20:20 < slangkamp> ok, now next year?
27.12.2010-20:20 < boud> as said above, we managed to finally "fix" krita and make it a real \
application people can depend on. 27.12.2010-20:20 < boud> slangkamp: for next year...
27.12.2010-20:20 < boud> (unless other people want to chip in with a bit of retrospective...)
27.12.2010-20:21 < Kubuntiac> I had fun. Thats about it for me. :)
27.12.2010-20:22 < boud> anyone else who wants to look back a bit?
27.12.2010-20:22 < Pentalis> I only have a small thing to say, but I think it's important
27.12.2010-20:22 -!- mattho [5f69e047@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.105.224.71] has quit [Quit: \
Page closed] 27.12.2010-20:22 -!- matusT [5f69e047@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.105.224.71] has \
joined #krita 27.12.2010-20:22 < boud> shoot!
27.12.2010-20:22 < LukasT> Let me note that we should be thankful to KDE for sponsoring our \
sprints, both KOffice sprints per year and Krita sprint -- we manage to meet sometimes 3 times \
a year :) 27.12.2010-20:22 < Kubuntiac> aye
27.12.2010-20:23 < boud> Pentalis has the floor
27.12.2010-20:23 < Pentalis> I always wanted to participate of an open source project, but I \
never found a community welcoming enough, and enough self-discipline, or enough knowledge, to \
get anything done. When I participated for GSoC for Krita this year I could find it all. \
27.12.2010-20:23 < Pentalis> I think this community has everything needed to attract people of \
all corners of the talent slider, let's exploit that  :> 27.12.2010-20:23 < Pentalis> That's \
all. 27.12.2010-20:24 < boud> Pfui to the other projects you approached -- krita is the richer \
for your presence! 27.12.2010-20:24 -!- sgrosso \
[~chatzilla@host152-218-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: \
Connection reset by peer] 27.12.2010-20:24 -!- sgrosso \
[~chatzilla@host152-218-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #krita \
27.12.2010-20:24 < boud> Anyone else about 2010? 27.12.2010-20:24 < slangkamp> I note that we \
also have a new record number of people in this channel :) 27.12.2010-20:24 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-20:25 < LukasT> CIA is listing and some Assagne is around, hm...
27.12.2010-20:25 < boud> :P
27.12.2010-20:25 < LukasT> Dear Children, Santa is Mom and Dad. Merry Christmas, Wikileaks
27.12.2010-20:25 < boud> okay -- about next year
27.12.2010-20:25  * dmitryK is reading backlog...  hum.. hum..
27.12.2010-20:25 < Kubuntiac> Agreed. I think the *friendliness* of the Krita community is \
unusually high and one of the things that made me stick around (I leave it to you all to decide \
if thaat's a good thing  ;P) 27.12.2010-20:26 < boud> Kubuntiac: without you we wouldn't have a \
website - but I think there might be some work on the website soonish... 27.12.2010-20:26 < \
Kubuntiac> ...! 27.12.2010-20:26 < boud> dmitryK: anything you want to add about 2010?
27.12.2010-20:26 < Kubuntiac> Ready and willing.
27.12.2010-20:28 < dmitryK> erm... 1) stress tests; 2) optimization of mask generation with \
complex maths; 3) ROI for the scheduler; 4) and new multithreaded system for the tools \
(discussed earlier) 27.12.2010-20:28 < dmitryK> but 4) is really too big, it worth the whole \
soc ;) 27.12.2010-20:28 < boud> dmitryK: if you want to achieve that in 2010, you've got some \
work to do! 27.12.2010-20:29 < LukasT> :)
27.12.2010-20:29 < LukasT> dmitryK: 3 days and we count it, go!
27.12.2010-20:29 < Kubuntiac> Bah. A whole 70 hours! Easy!
27.12.2010-20:30 < slangkamp> so 2011 now?
27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> yeah
27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> couple of points:
27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> Let me first enumerate them, then we can add other points and \
discuss.... 27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> fundraising and with which goal
27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> whither the manual
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> growing the community and keeping people coding outside gsoc/gci
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> the 2011 krita sprint
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> lgm attendance (may 10-13)
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> my scalability
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> goals for krita as an application
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> any other points?
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> (no particular order implied in my list...)
27.12.2010-20:32 < Pentalis> You mean things for 2011?, Krita Windows client.
27.12.2010-20:32 < Kubuntiac> packaging? (OBS, windows etc?) may be under "growing the \
community" 27.12.2010-20:32 < LukasT> I would add brainstorm the projects
27.12.2010-20:32 < boud> windows is a good point to put separately. I have some insider info on \
that, though. 27.12.2010-20:32 < LukasT> just titles and then we can note them 
27.12.2010-20:32 < Kubuntiac> !
27.12.2010-20:33 < boud> LukasT: sure
27.12.2010-20:33 < boud> we've got dmitry's goals, right -- and that means dmitry wants to go \
for a gsoc again, if I understand him correctly 27.12.2010-20:35 < LukasT> I had idea to put \
one krita developer for some fixed time frame into Blender's project 27.12.2010-20:35 < boud> \
this is what I have now: 27.12.2010-20:35 < boud> http://pastebin.com/UsFeDa7B
27.12.2010-20:35 < boud> LukasT: can you explain a bit more about that?
27.12.2010-20:35 < LukasT> and that would need fund raising so that he can stay with the team
27.12.2010-20:36 < LukasT> Blender is going to do some new project again -- open source movie. \
And they usually have requirements and they have blender coders around who code what they need. \
27.12.2010-20:37 < LukasT> I think it would take a lot of attention to Krita if we would offer \
Krita developer for few weeks to work with the team so that they can use Krita 27.12.2010-20:37 \
< LukasT> he would solve the issues they have, fix bugs etc. 27.12.2010-20:37 < LukasT> but it \
is just crazy idea , what do you think? :) 27.12.2010-20:38 < boud> it's a good idea -- though \
I see one drawback 27.12.2010-20:38 < matusT> very good idea :)
27.12.2010-20:38 < boud> it would mean giving Ton direct influence on what goes into Krita -- \
but that might be ok 27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> branch
27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> krita-blender
27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> and we can merge what we want
27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> that's how they do it with blender
27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> not everything is going into the master
27.12.2010-20:39 < boud> it could work very well
27.12.2010-20:39 < dmitryK> LukasT: it would be better if that developer had a direct access to \
the blender team (i mean living in the same country/city/house... ) 27.12.2010-20:39 < LukasT> \
they have some render branch if I remember correctly 27.12.2010-20:39 < slangkamp> first we \
have to get their requirements 27.12.2010-20:39 < boud> if it's for a month, we can figure out \
something 27.12.2010-20:39 < slangkamp> that was the problem last year
27.12.2010-20:39 < LukasT> dmitryK: yep, here comes the fundraising to allow that
27.12.2010-20:39 < LukasT> slangkamp: I agree
27.12.2010-20:39 < Kubuntiac> I think its a great idea. We can always have a blender branch and \
cherry pick. Durian movie was made with an "unofficial" build of Blender that then cherry \
picked 27.12.2010-20:39 < boud> and it needs coordination with the blender team of course, but \
I can see it work out 27.12.2010-20:40 < LukasT> only problem I see is, who is going to be the \
developer :) I can't though I wish I could,I'm working full-time :( 27.12.2010-20:40 < \
Kubuntiac> me! me! me!... actually probably not a good idea... 27.12.2010-20:40 < billstei> \
what is the time-frame for the next Blender project/movie? 27.12.2010-20:40 < boud> yeah, \
that's an issue. But we first need to figure out the timeframe 27.12.2010-20:41 < LukasT> I \
think it is not set yet 27.12.2010-20:41 < boud> billstei: is right -- I'm not sure about when \
they start, but I can find out 27.12.2010-20:41 < Kubuntiac> Ton has said "after blender final \
is out" 27.12.2010-20:41 < LukasT> Ton mentioned something in the keynote 
27.12.2010-20:41 < slangkamp> timeframe isn't set from what I saw in the video form blender \
conference 27.12.2010-20:41 < LukasT> Kubuntiac: but he was kidding then :)
27.12.2010-20:41 < Kubuntiac> He's been very vague but hinted probably later this year
27.12.2010-20:41 < LukasT> yes, somewhere in the end of the may 2011 or something they will \
start 27.12.2010-20:42 < boud> so... plenty of time to figure something out and start a \
campaign. Action point for me, ask Ton about this plan? 27.12.2010-20:42 < slangkamp> the good \
thing if we say that we are working on features for blender people we can get help from the \
much bigger blender community 27.12.2010-20:42 < billstei> what kinds of changes will the \
Blender ppl be looking for?  usability or features? 27.12.2010-20:42 < LukasT> performance
27.12.2010-20:42 < LukasT> stability
27.12.2010-20:43 < boud> and features... usability I doubt...
27.12.2010-20:43 < Kubuntiac> openexr working really well
27.12.2010-20:43 < boud> but we had lots of input this year already
27.12.2010-20:43 < Kubuntiac> (Which it may be already, I dont know)
27.12.2010-20:43 < slangkamp> yeah ton doesn't care much about usuability
27.12.2010-20:43 < LukasT> :D
27.12.2010-20:43 < boud> with openexr in krita being "correct" but not compatible with the way \
blender messed openexr up. 27.12.2010-20:44 < boud> but we can discuss that with ton
27.12.2010-20:44 < billstei> ton = ?
27.12.2010-20:44 < Kubuntiac> Lead dev of blender
27.12.2010-20:44 < slangkamp> ton roosendaal
27.12.2010-20:44 < boud> ton roosendaal, the blender benevolent dictator for life
27.12.2010-20:44 < billstei> ok
27.12.2010-20:44 < Spell> dictator, huh?
27.12.2010-20:45 < billstei> I would also like to hear the needs of ppl like David Revoy
27.12.2010-20:45 < boud> we still have an offer for getting 2.3 release publicity for krita \
through the blender blog -- and I still need to write the text. 27.12.2010-20:45 -!- sinozzuke \
[~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] \
27.12.2010-20:45 < LukasT> Ok, next? 27.12.2010-20:45 < slangkamp> most important is that we \
have a list of things that the blender people need, last year we were too late and they were to \
busy with the movie 27.12.2010-20:45 < Kubuntiac> boud: I'm happy to help with any editing if \
you want an English native speaker 27.12.2010-20:45 < Pentalis> I remember their most important \
needs: freely rotating canvas, customizable hotkeys for everything, quality mixbrush \
(preferably of watercolor tendencies) 27.12.2010-20:45 < boud> billstei: david revoy hangs out \
here regularly. krita still isn't fast enough for him, though -- but the last time he tried it \
was more like "I'm not completely familiar yet, and I am in a hurry now" 27.12.2010-20:46 -!- \
sinozzuke [~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-20:46  * \
Pentalis corrects himself after reading boud, "their most important needs other than \
performance and stability" 27.12.2010-20:46 < boud> Pentalis: well, hotkeys and mix brush is \
something we need to focus on 27.12.2010-20:46 < boud> LukasT: right, I've got an action point \
and I'll contact Ton this year 27.12.2010-20:47 < boud> so -- next
27.12.2010-20:47 < LukasT> Manual
27.12.2010-20:47 < slangkamp> boud: did you hear anything from Dreamworks?
27.12.2010-20:47 < Kubuntiac> I think there's some definite usability stuff that could be \
improved without much coding, but failing that docs on how Kirta's system works as its quite \
different to PS / Gimp / 27.12.2010-20:47 < boud> I've horribly over-estimated my own spare \
time for the manual :-( 27.12.2010-20:48 < LukasT> boud: ok, do we need to sponsor you to find \
time? 27.12.2010-20:48 < boud> slangkamp: no, though Imailed them tw times
27.12.2010-20:48 < boud> LukasT: I'm too overcommitted
27.12.2010-20:48 < verbalshadow> boud: it is up somewhere we can look at/edit?
27.12.2010-20:48 < boud> verbalshadow: yes, on userbase.kde.org
27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> verbalshadow: what we need for the manual is one author, to keep \
consistency of style 27.12.2010-20:49 < LukasT> boud: ok, but there is this point manual, if we \
would fund raise that one, what the money will be used for? 27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> \
verbalshadow: and then a host of people to fix it up, do screenshots and then edit \
27.12.2010-20:49 < LukasT> I noticed e.g. in Inkscape that they don't do fund raising for books \
or manuals 27.12.2010-20:49 < LukasT> but I might be mistaken..
27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> LukasT: well
27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> the difference is, inkscape is big enough that publishers pay authors \
(badly) to write books 27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> and that helps a lot
27.12.2010-20:50 < boud> and though irina has done her first bit of artwork with Krita, I doubt \
she's got the knowledge about raster graphics apps to write a handbook 27.12.2010-20:50 < \
verbalshadow> LukasT: we have done flossmanuals drives in inkscape 27.12.2010-20:50 < LukasT> \
verbalshadow: yes, good point, can you share what they provide? 27.12.2010-20:51 < slangkamp> \
so we just need to grow big enough that people are paid to write books about Krita \
27.12.2010-20:51 < Kubuntiac> Seems to me that if we focus on getting the app out to users (ie \
OBS / Win / Mac) we get more non-coder contributors to work on doco etc 27.12.2010-20:51 < \
boud> slangkamp: I trust that we reach that point in 2011, actually! Depending ontheir being a \
windows installer. 27.12.2010-20:51 < Kubuntiac> Right now we need all our coders, well, coding \
:) 27.12.2010-20:51 < verbalshadow> they provide a wiki like editing environment and output to \
pdf and other formats IIRC 27.12.2010-20:51 < LukasT> we already have Mag. Leonhard Landrock
27.12.2010-20:51 < LukasT> he also worked on the manual
27.12.2010-20:51 < LukasT> verbalshadow: they don't fund, ya?
27.12.2010-20:52 < verbalshadow> not that i recall, we have promoted books by community members \
like Tav 27.12.2010-20:53 < slangkamp> once there are books we could earn some money from that \
too 27.12.2010-20:53 < LukasT> I personally think we should focus for 2011 on fundraising the \
development again.  27.12.2010-20:54 < LukasT> I would post-pone the manual, what other thinks?
27.12.2010-20:54 < boud> well
27.12.2010-20:54 < boud> I think that getting interesting in writing a manual is dependent on \
having a good version of krita for windows 27.12.2010-20:54 < Kubuntiac> I think a manual is \
mainly important when yo uhave users to use it, thus my focus on easy deployment for users \
27.12.2010-20:54 < boud> I also think that writing a manual now is speculative, but could \
really pay out for the author 27.12.2010-20:54 < verbalshadow> \
http://userbase.kde.org/Applications/en is anyone else see non-english on this page? \
27.12.2010-20:55 < verbalshadow> seeing 27.12.2010-20:55 < boud> verbalshadow: yes :-). Looks \
like Romanian 27.12.2010-20:55 < Kubuntiac> Yeah I see something...looks like... Catlan?
27.12.2010-20:55 < LukasT> http://userbase.kde.org/Applications
27.12.2010-20:56 < LukasT> that works in english
27.12.2010-20:56 < Pentalis> -- I believe getting Krita packaged for Windows will attract more \
users than a well written manual. My rationale is: Windows users are numerous, there is bound \
to be some of them making posts in their blogs, comments in Wikis, and maybe even a YouTube \
video explaining the software if they grow to love it.   ----  They did it with SAI, and I've \
seen it grow constantly in popularity. 27.12.2010-20:56 < boud> ok
27.12.2010-20:56 < boud> let's go to the windows version then
27.12.2010-20:56 < slangkamp> but the windows version needs to be good
27.12.2010-20:56 < boud> yes
27.12.2010-20:57 < boud> two things I want to note before we start the discussion:
27.12.2010-20:57 < Pentalis> Yes, it must be as good as the Linux version which in turn needs \
to be fabulous, or the chance to win hype will be wasted. 27.12.2010-20:57 < LukasT> Just note \
that Windows version does not bring Windows developers \
http://prokoudine.info/blog/2010/12/the-more-the-better/ 27.12.2010-20:57 < Kubuntiac> I was \
thinking about that post 27.12.2010-20:57 < boud> * the digikam windows installer works -- but \
they are kept back by the quality of kde on windows 27.12.2010-20:57 < Kubuntiac> I think the \
problem is he makes no distinction between users and community 27.12.2010-20:57 < boud> for \
gimp, it doesn't bring developers, but it does bring a stream of money, articles and books \
27.12.2010-20:58 < Kubuntiac> Gimp has a lot of users, but it doesn't seem that community \
focussed for it's size. Compare that to Blender. 27.12.2010-20:58 < boud> * there's a \
foundation in the netherlands that might want to sponsor KO to create a calligra installer for \
windows 27.12.2010-20:58 < LukasT> oh, that sounds good
27.12.2010-20:58 < boud> if there's a calligra installer, krita will be easy. And KO GmbH has \
currently a job candidate who's an expert on windows installers and things 27.12.2010-20:59 < \
boud> so I hope that the installer will come; the problem will still be the quality of the kde \
libs on windows. 27.12.2010-20:59 < slangkamp> cool
27.12.2010-20:59 < billstei> so the WIndows version is dependent on KDE or QT ?
27.12.2010-20:59 < LukasT> billstei: both
27.12.2010-20:59 < slangkamp> both
27.12.2010-20:59 < boud> billstei: both
27.12.2010-20:59 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-20:59 < billstei> :(
27.12.2010-21:00  * dmitryK 's english reading is too slow to get it time with others typing =)
27.12.2010-21:00 < boud> and it's not even the libraries that are the problem: it's the \
daemons, imo. 27.12.2010-21:00 < LukasT> dmitryK: we can change the language to german, I'm in \
Munich, they don't speak English there so I'm trapped 27.12.2010-21:01 < boud> ach, nein! Nicht \
auf Deutch!  27.12.2010-21:01 < LukasT> boud: would it give sense to fund raise somebody from \
Krita to support the KO effort ? 27.12.2010-21:01 < boud> LukasT: I don't think so.
27.12.2010-21:01 < boud> LukasT: if the KO thing doesn't work out, then we'll have to make a \
new plan 27.12.2010-21:01 < Kubuntiac> Probably better to help efforts for KO to raise funds \
for themselves 27.12.2010-21:01 < boud> otherwise we'll just be duplicating effort, I think.
27.12.2010-21:01 < LukasT> ok, let's make it conditional point 
27.12.2010-21:02 < dmitryK> well, men, what i understood from the discussion: "We need to make \
it very stable and very user friendly first. That is the starting point of every way." \
27.12.2010-21:02 < LukasT> dmitryK: wrong 27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> so, Windows is important, \
but we don't have to spend effort on it. 27.12.2010-21:02 < LukasT> dmitryK: stable and fast
27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> LukasT: dmitryK is right
27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> ah, ok
27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> stable is the main thing :-)
27.12.2010-21:02 < LukasT> we don't care about user friendy, we here on IRC are user friendly \
already 27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> we really need to become as allergic to crashes as the Nasa is \
:P 27.12.2010-21:03 < dmitryK> LukasT: i think user-friendly includes the definition of "fast" \
=) 27.12.2010-21:03 < LukasT> ok, then the Windows installer is solved
27.12.2010-21:03 < boud> LGM now?
27.12.2010-21:03 < LukasT> ok
27.12.2010-21:03 < LukasT> I would like to attend the LGM in Canada
27.12.2010-21:03 < boud> LukasT and Animtim intend to go to LGM in Montreal, right?
27.12.2010-21:04 < boud> Both need to submit presentations and ask KDE e.V. for sponsorship -- \
but that won't be a problem 27.12.2010-21:04 < Kubuntiac> I may be able to make Montreal, too
27.12.2010-21:04 < boud> I also think that it won't be a problem for others to go and get \
sponsorship 27.12.2010-21:04 < LukasT> I would like to report our progress in Krita development \
and do some showcase of the hot features and not just paintops this time 27.12.2010-21:04 < \
boud> Kubuntiac: you're no doubt eligible for sponsorship as well 27.12.2010-21:04 < boud> \
LukasT: right 27.12.2010-21:04 < Kubuntiac> he, I don't think Id need it
27.12.2010-21:04 < Kubuntiac> Its one 5 hours drive from here
27.12.2010-21:05 < boud> anyone else who wants to go?
27.12.2010-21:05 < LukasT> Animtim's role would be to do some Krita workshop
27.12.2010-21:05 < boud> Pentalis, billstei: you're in the same half of the globe, aren't you?
27.12.2010-21:05 < Pentalis> boud: Same half, different quarter
27.12.2010-21:06 < LukasT> :D
27.12.2010-21:06 < billstei> yes, I would go but is the cost justified?
27.12.2010-21:06 < boud> Pentalis: still....
27.12.2010-21:06 < kig> re: stable, do you have unit tests? 
27.12.2010-21:06 < dmitryK> btw, about speed: Krita's blur filter on core 2 duo works slower \
than PS7 on AthlonXP 2000+ eight years old =( 27.12.2010-21:06 < boud> billstei: kde \
contributors get funded to visit conferences like this 27.12.2010-21:06  * Pentalis googles LGM \
quickly to see what it is about 27.12.2010-21:06 < boud> Kubuntiac: yes, about a hundred
27.12.2010-21:07 < boud> dmitryK: shall I put that under your action points?
27.12.2010-21:07 < billstei> I will go if someone pays for (most of) it
27.12.2010-21:07 < LukasT> dmitryK: fix it!
27.12.2010-21:07 < LukasT> :)
27.12.2010-21:07 < Kubuntiac> boud: eh? 100 what?
27.12.2010-21:07 < boud> Kubuntiac: about a hundred unittests
27.12.2010-21:07 < boud> it was meant for kig ...
27.12.2010-21:07 < Kubuntiac> kig != kubuntiac :)
27.12.2010-21:07 < boud> stupid autocompletely, why can't it read my mind
27.12.2010-21:07 < Pentalis> boud: I don't think I am prepared to go there in 2011, I think \
2012 will be the year (if the world doesn't end by then  ;)  ) 27.12.2010-21:07 < Kubuntiac> \
because you haven't coded it yet :) 27.12.2010-21:07 < dmitryK> boud: i didn't even tried to \
get into it yet 27.12.2010-21:08 < boud> Pentalis: let's try to get you to the krita sprint, \
though 27.12.2010-21:08 < boud> so... for lgm -- we've added billstei to the list of attendees. \
Anyone else? 27.12.2010-21:08 < dmitryK> LukasT: it's just about optimization on design level \
of newly written paitops ;P 27.12.2010-21:08 < boud> I think I might just be too busy, though I \
haven't got any travel booked for May yet... 27.12.2010-21:08 < Kubuntiac> boud: When is the \
sprint? 27.12.2010-21:08 < boud> Kubuntiac: we need to discuss that next
27.12.2010-21:09  * Kubuntiac wants to make the sprint if possible, depoending on the wheres \
and whens 27.12.2010-21:09  * billstei wonders if he needs a passport for Canada
27.12.2010-21:09 < boud> billstei: officially, KDE e.V. pays 80 percent of travel/accomodation. \
Often it's 100%/ 27.12.2010-21:09 < Kubuntiac> billstei: yup, I think
27.12.2010-21:09 < billstei> 80% will do it
27.12.2010-21:09 < Kubuntiac> billstei: I need one to enter the US
27.12.2010-21:10 < LukasT> boud: wasn't it somehow related if you give a presentation/workshop?
27.12.2010-21:10 < boud> LukasT: yes, but even there, there's flexibility. Especially for \
people who are relatively new to KDE 27.12.2010-21:10 < verbalshadow> LukasT: have you ever \
played with the drawing program expression3, it has some neat brush ideas 27.12.2010-21:10 < \
LukasT> verbalshadow: notes that one -- no 27.12.2010-21:10 < billstei> i don't have much to \
say (yet) 27.12.2010-21:11 < boud> billstei: but a lot to learn...
27.12.2010-21:11 < billstei> mostly just complaining
27.12.2010-21:11 < boud> there's some very good beer in Montreal, as well.
27.12.2010-21:11 < billstei> Workshop: Whining and Bitching
27.12.2010-21:12 < billstei> (includes free, as in beer)
27.12.2010-21:12 < LukasT> :D
27.12.2010-21:12 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-21:12 < LukasT> :D
27.12.2010-21:12 < boud> ok
27.12.2010-21:12 < Pentalis> dmitryK: The blur filter uses the fast foutier transform method of \
convolution, we're using an external library (FFTW) which is optimized to the brim in speed, so \
if there are bottlenecks, I think these are in other parts of the code. 27.12.2010-21:12 < \
boud> I need to take short break myself, after that, let's discuss the 2011 sprint \
27.12.2010-21:14  * CyrilleB read a bit the backlog... wrt openexr, I think blender 2.50 is \
"fixed", but we need to fix some performance issues related to ctl/rgbf 27.12.2010-21:14 < \
billstei> i have bad knees, I can't sprint anywhere except the toilet 27.12.2010-21:14 < \
verbalshadow> billstei: i would attend your talk 27.12.2010-21:14 < LukasT> == ok, so here come \
the short commercial break ==  27.12.2010-21:15 < dmitryK> we just need: place, time and who \
will be able to make visa(s) ;) 27.12.2010-21:15 < CyrilleB> small things to decide
27.12.2010-21:15 < LukasT> I was offering to help boud back in Helsinki
27.12.2010-21:15 < LukasT> with the organization
27.12.2010-21:15 < LukasT> but I'm in munich for 3 months
27.12.2010-21:15 < LukasT> I though it would be somewhere in Slovakia
27.12.2010-21:16 < kig> boud: one thing that might be useful for catching crashes is fuzz \
testing (write a small script that generates random valid function calls, let it rip on the \
API). at least it's been very helpful for finding segfaults in my code 27.12.2010-21:16 < \
LukasT> kig: krita is quite huge for this 27.12.2010-21:16 < LukasT> kig: and we don't use \
scripts currently, we use users to find them 27.12.2010-21:16 < boud> kig: yes, that's a great \
idea. Can you help with that? 27.12.2010-21:17 < boud> I am planning fuzzing for the calligra \
opendocument code, but i haven't considered it for krita yet 27.12.2010-21:17 < boud> And I'm \
not sure where to start 27.12.2010-21:17 < CyrilleB> different kind of fuzzing
27.12.2010-21:18 < dmitryK> kig: what is the difference between fuzzing and random \
stresstesting? 27.12.2010-21:18 < kig> hmm, i can at least do a test generator
27.12.2010-21:18 < kig> dmitryK: i have no idea, really
27.12.2010-21:18 < kig> the prob is that you kinda need a well-defined api to test
27.12.2010-21:19 < verbalshadow> random stress testing isn't always limited to valid inputs
27.12.2010-21:19 < boud> well, if you can give it a try... even if the outcome is that the api \
needs fixing, it's valuable. 27.12.2010-21:19 < LukasT> short commercial break over?
27.12.2010-21:19 < boud> yes, I'm back again :-)
27.12.2010-21:19 < LukasT> ok, the sprint
27.12.2010-21:19 < boud> the sprint
27.12.2010-21:19 < LukasT> Slovakia
27.12.2010-21:19 < LukasT> problems: I'm in Munich
27.12.2010-21:20 < LukasT> cons: cheap food and possibly cheap hotels
27.12.2010-21:20 < CyrilleB> and it is not that cheap :)
27.12.2010-21:20 < boud> and it's not a cheap as everyone thougt...
27.12.2010-21:20 < LukasT> pros of course
27.12.2010-21:20 < LukasT> I mixed it
27.12.2010-21:20 < boud> so, we need a location with a meeting room big enough for the bigger \
team. We won't fit in my house anymore 27.12.2010-21:20 < Kubuntiac> :(
27.12.2010-21:20 < LukasT> :)
27.12.2010-21:21 < boud> renting a suitable space will be ~500 euros for the weekend in .nl, \
excluding coffee 27.12.2010-21:21 < Kubuntiac> true, :)
27.12.2010-21:21 < jonnor> when are you holding this sprint?
27.12.2010-21:21 < LukasT> I would propose maybe KDAB's office?
27.12.2010-21:21 < LukasT> they used to pay one dinner ...
27.12.2010-21:21 < LukasT> jonnor: not set yet
27.12.2010-21:21 < boud> well, we're in kdab's office already for the calligra sprint, and I \
hate to impose 27.12.2010-21:21 < boud> jonnor: Q1, preferably
27.12.2010-21:21 < slangkamp> boud: we could ask ton for the blender institue ;)
27.12.2010-21:21 < boud> slangkamp: good idea, I'll ask that
27.12.2010-21:22 < Pentalis> Chile. Advantages: cheap food, cheap hotels, no need for Visas. \
Disadvantages: nobody will understand a word, it's on the other side of the planet. \
27.12.2010-21:22 < CyrilleB> and direct flight to amsterdam :) 27.12.2010-21:22 < LukasT> \
Amsterdam is not cheap :( 27.12.2010-21:22 < CyrilleB> boud: there is the linux hotel too
27.12.2010-21:22 < boud> yes, that's a good option.
27.12.2010-21:22 < LukasT> CyrilleB: free as in beer?
27.12.2010-21:22 < billstei> Minneapolis: cons: snow, snow, snow  Pros: ?
27.12.2010-21:22 < boud> So action point for me; ask ton about blender instititue and ask \
troubalex/ingwa about the linux hotel. 27.12.2010-21:23 < boud> billstei: good beer?
27.12.2010-21:23 -!- sinozzuke [~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read \
error: Connection reset by peer] 27.12.2010-21:23 < billstei> *cold* beer
27.12.2010-21:23 < Kubuntiac> We also have room in North Ontario for 12-14 :) Not many pubs \
within 100k though 27.12.2010-21:23 -!- sinozzuke \
[~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-21:23 < LukasT> \
Linux hotel is in Amsterdam? 27.12.2010-21:23 < CyrilleB> billstei: I would classify snow as \
pros :) 27.12.2010-21:23 < dmitryK> billstei: pros: snow, snow, snow! ;)
27.12.2010-21:23 < boud> and minneapolis is the home of my favourite web comic
27.12.2010-21:23  * dmitryK is for Minneapoli
27.12.2010-21:23 < boud> LukasT: no, near Essen
27.12.2010-21:23 < CyrilleB> LukasT: nope
27.12.2010-21:23 < slangkamp> LukasT: well after Oslo everything is cheaper :)
27.12.2010-21:23 < LukasT> slangkamp: :)
27.12.2010-21:24 < dmitryK> slangkamp: +1
27.12.2010-21:24 < CyrilleB> billstei: but I would say con: minneapolis is in the US ;)
27.12.2010-21:24 < boud> yeah, let's never ever go to Oslo again
27.12.2010-21:24 < CyrilleB> slangkamp: we could go to switzerland ;)
27.12.2010-21:24 < LukasT> Americans!
27.12.2010-21:24  * billstei is not actually from Minneapolis
27.12.2010-21:24 < boud> ok... I think I've got an action point
27.12.2010-21:24 < slangkamp> CyrilleB: no!
27.12.2010-21:25 < CyrilleB> if we go to switzerland, we might even get bart back ;p
27.12.2010-21:25 < boud> one thing I wanted to ask was: how difficult will it be for people to \
attend for a longer period than just the weekend? 27.12.2010-21:25 < boud> bart!
27.12.2010-21:25 < Pentalis> I have no difficulties of any kind. Wherever the sprint is, my \
biggest problem will be getting the visa. 27.12.2010-21:25 < boud> I should ask him about room \
at his university 27.12.2010-21:25 < dmitryK> boud: for me the only problem is military \
department, but i think this is doable 27.12.2010-21:25 < LukasT> in Q1 I don't have many \
vacation :( 27.12.2010-21:26 < dmitryK> boud: so actually, it can be solved
27.12.2010-21:26 < boud> dmitryK: cool
27.12.2010-21:26 < slangkamp> boud: depends on the date
27.12.2010-21:26 < CyrilleB> boud: I will probably limit myself to the week-end
27.12.2010-21:26 < boud> LukasT: I don't have a lot of holidays either, and at least one \
business trip every month this year, or so it seems... 27.12.2010-21:26 < boud> CyrilleB: ok
27.12.2010-21:26 < boud> slangkamp: ok, we need to figure that out
27.12.2010-21:27 < billstei> i can do the sprint for a whole year
27.12.2010-21:27 < LukasT> I will be limited to the weekend +- 2 days maximum 
27.12.2010-21:27 < boud> I guess that in the end, .nl is easiest, both travel-wise and \
visum-wise, since I can be host and do the paperwork. 27.12.2010-21:27  * LukasT nostalgically \
remembers the awesome week  27.12.2010-21:27  * Kubuntiac wants to see .nl
27.12.2010-21:27  * LukasT would prefer .de
27.12.2010-21:28  * LukasT likes the german food 
27.12.2010-21:28 < Kubuntiac> :)
27.12.2010-21:28 < boud> for .de, slangkamp will have to do all the visum stuff, or maybe we \
can get claudia to fix it. 27.12.2010-21:29 < LukasT> ok, sprint point done?
27.12.2010-21:30 < boud> I guess -- we want one, and it's up to me to fix a location and date. \
And it might be a bit longer than just the weekend, but with flexible attendance. \
27.12.2010-21:30 < boud> and .nl or .de are easiest, visum wise. 27.12.2010-21:30 < billstei> \
what about fundum-wise? 27.12.2010-21:30 < boud> billstei: KDE e.V. funds sprint travel + \
accomodation 27.12.2010-21:30 < billstei> no way
27.12.2010-21:31 < Kubuntiac> We love you KDE Ev!
27.12.2010-21:31 < billstei> i could see the Motherland
27.12.2010-21:31 < boud> which doesn't mean that we shouldn't be careful and check the cheapest \
option, but last year shicmap came from Canada, no problems there. 27.12.2010-21:31 < \
slangkamp> date also depends on the location, I guess blender institute and linux hotel could \
have limitations 27.12.2010-21:31 < boud> and KDE e.V. is very supportive of bringing people \
together from everywhere. 27.12.2010-21:31 < LukasT> Every airplane path seem to lead to \
amsterdam.. 27.12.2010-21:32 < Kubuntiac> lol
27.12.2010-21:32 < boud> LukasT: it's the third or fourth biggest air hub in the world...
27.12.2010-21:32 < Kubuntiac> itsthe new rome :)
27.12.2010-21:32 < Kubuntiac> as in all roads lead to...
27.12.2010-21:32 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-21:32 < boud> Ok
27.12.2010-21:33 < boud> one big point left, as far as I can tell -- and that's gsoc/gci and \
how can we keep the people who entered the project through these programs active \
27.12.2010-21:33 < boud> and the brainstorming 27.12.2010-21:33  * LukasT away for  minutes
27.12.2010-21:33 < LukasT> 5 minutes and I'm back
27.12.2010-21:34 < boud> I need to kiss my daughters goodnight, so afk as well
27.12.2010-21:34 < matusT> i will stay active after end of gci :)
27.12.2010-21:34 < dmitryK> boud: suggest a cool project afterwards?
27.12.2010-21:34 < Kubuntiac> I'd say keeping people involved is about a) Keeping them updated, \
b) making it easy to get started (ie marking junior jobs) and c) asking :) 27.12.2010-21:34 < \
billstei> More Mahnay 27.12.2010-21:35 < CyrilleB> LukasT: the only three places with more \
airtraffic in europe are london, paris and frankfurt ;) (I can't say for frankfurt, but the \
other two places are very expensive) 27.12.2010-21:35 < CyrilleB> Kubuntiac: b) -> well they \
don't need junior jobs anymore :) 27.12.2010-21:35 < Kubuntiac> ?
27.12.2010-21:36 < boud> billstei: while the sponsorship certainly has helped Krita a lot this \
year, I would like to make sure gsoc/gci people don't stay around just because of the shekels. \
27.12.2010-21:37  * LukasT back 27.12.2010-21:38 < LukasT> Ok, I will show some problem I see
27.12.2010-21:38 < boud> dmitryK: but yes, we might want to spend a bit of time creating a good \
page with cool projects at the next sprint. The one we made for LukasT' universit was a good \
start, I think. 27.12.2010-21:38 < boud> LukasT: you've the floor
27.12.2010-21:38 < LukasT> I think we should have some rules how to select the developers that \
will be sponsored 27.12.2010-21:38 < Kubuntiac> boud: I'm up for helping with that
27.12.2010-21:39 < boud> Kubuntiac: ok, noted -- let's get together this week and convert the \
text in a project ideas page for krita.org 27.12.2010-21:39 < LukasT> E.g. I think the \
developer should have enough knowledge  27.12.2010-21:39 < Kubuntiac> boud: k
27.12.2010-21:39 < boud> LukasT: we're talking about gsoc/gci students here, not sponsored \
developers 27.12.2010-21:39 < LukasT> ah, ok different topic 
27.12.2010-21:39 < LukasT> ?
27.12.2010-21:39 < boud> I think so
27.12.2010-21:40 < CyrilleB> yes, it is how to keep the people who got paid when they are not \
paid anymore :) 27.12.2010-21:40 < LukasT> in my case it is clear
27.12.2010-21:40 < LukasT> I take Krita as hobby also
27.12.2010-21:40 < LukasT> I'm funded for doing dirty work, fixing bugs
27.12.2010-21:41 < Kubuntiac> Emphasising the value of helping FOSS as a CV piece may help...
27.12.2010-21:41 < LukasT> that is not my hobby, I have enough bugs in my full-time job :)
27.12.2010-21:41 < boud> Kubuntiac: the weird thing is, it's certainly true -- I never hire \
anyone who hasn't got a lot of foss experience 27.12.2010-21:41 < LukasT> yep, CV entry can \
help sometimes 27.12.2010-21:42 < boud> and the same goes for lots of other interesting jobs
27.12.2010-21:42 < Kubuntiac> Working on FOSS is free, industry relevant training...
27.12.2010-21:42 < LukasT> but really sometimes :)
27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> ~~~~ Incoming wall of text ~~~~
27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> My proposal to set goals:
27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> INTRO --- Everyone contributing to Krita has different interests \
and skills, just like users have different expectations of what the software should do. So far, \
roadmaps have been done by developers taking into account user feedback. However, opening the \
process even more could be benefical. 27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> PROPOSAL --- Creating a Wiki \
or simple message board where users can add a feature wish, the importance (to them) of this \
feature wish (in numbers), as well as explaining why it is important/useful to them.    Yes, \
KDE Bugzilla already offers a similar infrastructure for Wishes, but it is lacking.   This \
infrastructure should automatically sum scores of relative importance to wishes, thus making it \
much easier to gauge what users want from the software. 27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> And some \
tasks are bound to be easier than others, there hobbist new developers can test their skill and \
make their first commits, feel happy that they did something meaningful to all those people \
wanting the feature, and get their developer account if they want to stay.   27.12.2010-21:42 < \
Pentalis> FINAL NOTE --- This is only a proposal to organize goals, I'm sure it'll help keeping \
contributors motivated or may make bringing contributors a bit easier, but I still am not sure \
how to make them stay. 27.12.2010-21:42  * Pentalis hides from the lynching
27.12.2010-21:42 < Kubuntiac> slogan: "Change the world. Get a great job. Free training. Ask me \
how!" :) 27.12.2010-21:43 < boud> Pentalis: ok... this sounds like the kde brainstorm forum, \
but focussed on Krita 27.12.2010-21:43 < boud> Pentalis: it's a good idea -- maybe we can \
create a new forum for it and advertise it a bit? 27.12.2010-21:43 < CyrilleB> (or use kde \
brainstorm :) ) 27.12.2010-21:44 < Kubuntiac> It really *does* sound like bugs.kde.org to me... \
they add up the votes, too :) I just wish brainstorm forum had separation of idea fro \
implementation like ubuntu brainstorm 27.12.2010-21:44 < Pentalis> boud CyrilleB: (attempt at \
mixing feedback) use kde brainstorm with a forum specific to Krita and advertise it with a BIG \
banner in krita.org? 27.12.2010-21:45  * Pentalis checks kde brainstorm which he didn't even \
know of its existance 27.12.2010-21:45 < billstei> and kde brainstorm adds up votes?  like a \
poll? 27.12.2010-21:45 < boud> I never manage to look at the wishes in bugzilla -- there's just \
too much of it, and for wishes, a forum might work better 27.12.2010-21:45 < Kubuntiac> Without \
separation of idea / implementation you get vague but huge ideas with a zillion votes like \
"Make Krita perfect! (10,0000 votes)" 27.12.2010-21:45 < CyrilleB> Pentalis: kde brainstorm has \
tags, no need for subforum 27.12.2010-21:45 < Kubuntiac> billstei: Yes, you can see votes added \
on the idea 27.12.2010-21:46 < Kubuntiac> You don't see all ideas ranked by vote though (I \
think)  27.12.2010-21:46 < CyrilleB> here are all the brainstorms for krita \
http://forum.kde.org/search.php?tags=krita&sr=topics 27.12.2010-21:46 < Pentalis> The most \
important feature is the auto-talling of votes / relative importance and automatic building of \
a ranking of most popular feature requests; all those automatizable tasks should be done by a \
computer such that human beings can rip the benefits. 27.12.2010-21:46 < Kubuntiac> Does anyone \
ever look at the Krita brainstorms? 27.12.2010-21:46 < dmitryK> Kubuntiac: erm... =)
27.12.2010-21:46 < boud> Kubuntiac: well...
27.12.2010-21:47 < Pentalis> Kubuntiac: where, when?
27.12.2010-21:47 < boud> but we're moving away from the topic a bit
27.12.2010-21:47 < CyrilleB> :)
27.12.2010-21:47 < Pentalis> Yeah, it was a bit of an idea to keep full newbies motivated and \
finding what they need faster, instead of having to ask. 27.12.2010-21:47 < Kubuntiac> I'm good \
at that (along with billstei :) 27.12.2010-21:47 < slangkamp> I guess a "Make a photoshop \
clone" would get 10000 votes ;) 27.12.2010-21:47 < Pentalis> I can bring this discussion to the \
mailing list ---->   moving topic back to where it was. 27.12.2010-21:48 < boud> so, we've got \
two or three things: 27.12.2010-21:48 < boud> * cool projects page (kubuntiac + boud)
27.12.2010-21:48 < boud> * advertise brainstorm (pentalis + boud)
27.12.2010-21:49 < boud> * really make clear to people we mentor that we expect everyone to be \
around after the project ends 27.12.2010-21:49 < boud> anything else?
27.12.2010-21:49 < Kubuntiac> You mean a new brainstorm or brainstorm on forum.kde.org?
27.12.2010-21:49 < billstei> * clone boud (boud)
27.12.2010-21:49 < boud> yeah
27.12.2010-21:49 < boud> my scalability is a bit of a problem, I'm afraid
27.12.2010-21:50 < Kubuntiac> we'll see what a bunch of slovakian beer does to that :)
27.12.2010-21:50 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-21:51 < boud> As a last point for this meeting, I'm really interested if anyone here \
has something like "I really wanna do X in 2011" or "I really wanna see X in 2011" \
27.12.2010-21:52 < Kubuntiac> Other than World Domination™... 27.12.2010-21:52 < matusT> i am \
doing and i wana spread OpenCL in krita 27.12.2010-21:52 < Kubuntiac> I'd like to get more \
video of Krita out on the intertubes 27.12.2010-21:52 < billstei> i want to see the Motherland
27.12.2010-21:52 < LukasT> I want to stay on the brush engines topic in Krita and doing crazy \
stuff with that 27.12.2010-21:53 < Kubuntiac> and get news out into the artist community as \
well as the FOSS communitiy 27.12.2010-21:53 < LukasT> and of course I want to work as parttime \
developer for Krita in year 2011 27.12.2010-21:53 < CyrilleB> I want to do too many things :)
27.12.2010-21:53 < boud> CyrilleB: :-)
27.12.2010-21:54 < boud> right now, what I really want is to fix the resizing dockers, but I \
know that that's a quixotic quest.  27.12.2010-21:54 < boud> and fix the psd support... But I \
need long train journeys for that. 27.12.2010-21:54 < Kubuntiac> I also have some tentative \
ideas about a more community focused krita.org. Been playing around with Elgg (FOSS social \
network). It's nice! 27.12.2010-21:55 < boud> Kubuntiac: bring it on!
27.12.2010-21:55 < slangkamp> most of the things I wanted to implement for the next version are \
almost done ;) 27.12.2010-21:55 < Kubuntiac> :)
27.12.2010-21:55 < Kubuntiac> slangkamp: Someone's been turning up the awesome :)
27.12.2010-21:56 < boud> and there's still the integrated preset editor -- there are a number \
of things david revoy and peter sikking hinted about that are still to do. 27.12.2010-21:56 < \
billstei> sikking knows who we are? 27.12.2010-21:56 < boud> billstei: yes, he was with us last \
sprint 27.12.2010-21:57 < billstei> does he say nice things or does he make us feel bad?
27.12.2010-21:57 < boud> he helped us formulate the mission statement, among other things
27.12.2010-21:57 < boud> let's say that he makes us think :-)
27.12.2010-21:58 < dmitryK> btw, about the things, that'll help newbies to work more prolific \
-- a good UML (at least) for our code :( 27.12.2010-21:58 < boud> no gci student picked up on \
that... 27.12.2010-21:59 < billstei> code comments are evil  No UML!
27.12.2010-22:00 < dmitryK> boud: when i were 14 i didn't know anything about UML (though i did \
some coding in VB and c++)  =) 27.12.2010-22:00 < Pentalis> I'm guilty of that, I never put up \
the finished draft for that in GCI.  But I couldn't have tutored that and the brush campaign at \
the same time so I don't regret it much. 27.12.2010-22:00 < boud> dmitryK: when I was 14, UML \
didn't exist yet! 27.12.2010-22:00 < dmitryK> billstei: "code comments are evil" -- yes, but \
UML != "code comments" 27.12.2010-22:00 < matusT> cannot be UML just generated from code?
27.12.2010-22:00  * LukasT have to go
27.12.2010-22:01  * LukasT thanks for a nice time 
27.12.2010-22:01 -!- heroid [~heroid@178.175.69.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
27.12.2010-22:01 < Pentalis> exactly at 22:00  be well LukasT
27.12.2010-22:01 < Kubuntiac> Later LukasT!
27.12.2010-22:01 < boud> matusT: it can -- but then it won't be too clear
27.12.2010-22:01 < boud> by LukasT 
27.12.2010-22:01 < slangkamp> bye LukasT
27.12.2010-22:01 < boud> bye, I mean
27.12.2010-22:01 < dmitryK> LukasT: see you!
27.12.2010-22:01 < sgrosso> bye Lukas
27.12.2010-22:01 < boud> matusT: umbrello can help out at the beginning, but onl for class \
diagrams, while it's the interaction diagrams that are most important 27.12.2010-22:02 < \
matusT> boud: and what can do interaction diagrams? 27.12.2010-22:02 < dmitryK> boud, matusT: \
and UML should describe only main traits of the systems, i guess 27.12.2010-22:03 < dmitryK> \
matusT: how the classes iteract with each other 27.12.2010-22:03 < Pentalis> Oh, forgot to say \
what I planned for 2011... Using Krita to make heaps of art, that's pretty much my second \
biggest priority for the year in general. 27.12.2010-22:03 -!- LukasT \
[~LukasT@bband-dyn163.95-103-208.t-com.sk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 27.12.2010-22:04 < \
Kubuntiac> Pentalis: Nice! Yeah, I want to do more art this year, too :) 27.12.2010-22:04 < \
dmitryK> boud: i guess, for the beginning, we just need to show classes, associations and \
aggregations 27.12.2010-22:04 < matusT> dmitryK: i was not asking what is
27.12.2010-22:04 < matusT> dmitryK: boud sayd umbrello can help only with class diagrams, so \
what other software can make/craete interaction diagrams? 27.12.2010-22:04 < CyrilleB> umbrello \
has support for interaction diagrams 27.12.2010-22:05 < slangkamp> boud: did you take notes so \
far? 27.12.2010-22:05 < dmitryK> matusT: ah, the developer, that is who can do that, i guess ;)
27.12.2010-22:05 < dmitryK> CyrilleB: autogeneration?
27.12.2010-22:05 < boud> slangkamp: yes, a few
27.12.2010-22:06 < boud> slangkamp: I'll fix the notes up tomorrow when I'm in the hospital, \
waiting for irina to be taken care of. 27.12.2010-22:06 < CyrilleB> dmitryK: no
27.12.2010-22:06 < dmitryK> matusT, CyrilleB: btw, all the previous times i tried to \
auto-generate UML form Krita's code -- it hung up ;P 27.12.2010-22:06 < CyrilleB> but then, \
there is no FOSS application that support generation 27.12.2010-22:07 < Kubuntiac> :'(
27.12.2010-22:07 < dmitryK> CyrilleB: i guess this is due to some KRITA_EXPORT stuff... just a \
guess.. 27.12.2010-22:07 < Kubuntiac> Hey, do we have a release date for 2.3?
27.12.2010-22:08 < CyrilleB> wednesday
27.12.2010-22:08 < Kubuntiac> eep! I better get moving with my video then...
27.12.2010-22:08 < boud> tomorrow night... I'll finish the 2.3 koffice changelog. Wednesday \
morning I will have to get irina from the hospital, but I still might be able to do a krita.org \
release article. 27.12.2010-22:08 < Kubuntiac> If anyone can think of any new features of v2.3 \
I should cover, I'd love to hear them 27.12.2010-22:09 < dmitryK> Kubuntiac: canvas rotation? \
=) 27.12.2010-22:09 < boud> brushes, speed, canvas rotation, speed, masks, speed, presets, \
color docker, speed, transform tool 27.12.2010-22:09 < slangkamp> and staaaaaabbbbbiliityyyyy
27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> we really need to release more often, since there's too much in 2.3 to \
take in 27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> slangkamp: right you are! 
27.12.2010-22:10  * Kubuntiac tries to figure out how to record Krita *not* crashing....
27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> oh-oh
27.12.2010-22:10 < dmitryK> ok, i have to go now, good night!
27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> I only know of one crash I reproduce, and that's an assert, so \
hopefully not a crash in release mode 27.12.2010-22:10 < Kubuntiac> later dmitryK!
27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> dmitryK: bye!
27.12.2010-22:10 -!- dmitryK [~dmitryK@94.232.66.212] has quit [Remote host closed the \
connection] 27.12.2010-22:11 < Kubuntiac> boud: By that, I didn't mean Krita is rashing, I mean \
that recording a video of nothing happening is, well, boring :) 27.12.2010-22:11 < Kubuntiac> \
rashing == crashing 27.12.2010-22:12 < slangkamp> we haven't decided what to sponsor next year \
yet 27.12.2010-22:13 < boud> slangkamp: that's true
27.12.2010-22:13 < Pentalis> I have a wall of text written with respect to the mixing engine in \
case the topic needs to be discussed. 27.12.2010-22:13 < boud> slangkamp: except that we have \
decided not to sponsor: the manual and the windows installer 27.12.2010-22:13 < Kubuntiac> \
boud: If it helps for your changelog: http://community.kde.org/Krita/V2.3UserFacingFeatures \
27.12.2010-22:13 < boud> Kubuntiac: sure, thanks! 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> slangkamp: there are \
two or three things sgrosso has offered sponsorship for: 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> * fixing the \
crop tool 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> * mix brush
27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> * fixing some remaining nasty bugs
27.12.2010-22:14  * Kubuntiac bows before sgrosso
27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> we've got a clear end date for that, as well as a clear \
end-of-sponsorship -- and that's great 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> we owe sgrosso a lot!
27.12.2010-22:14 < sgrosso> yes, I would like to sponsor them :-)
27.12.2010-22:15 < boud> after that, we really need to engage the community again
27.12.2010-22:15 < CyrilleB> I thought we had decided to sponsor for blender's need
27.12.2010-22:15 < boud> that's a plan -- but I need to discuss that with Ton first. It's on my \
todo. 27.12.2010-22:16 < boud> sgrosso: :-)
27.12.2010-22:17 < CyrilleB> meaning we can't really take a decision
27.12.2010-22:17 < boud> CyrilleB: right
27.12.2010-22:17 < slangkamp> ok
27.12.2010-22:18 -!- sinozzuke [~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read \
error: Connection reset by peer] 27.12.2010-22:18 -!- sinozzuke \
[~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-22:19 < Kubuntiac> \
I think engaging the community comes down to publicity (so they know we exist) and ease (making \
it easy to install and use). Other than windows, packages are vital imho as most artists will \
*never* compile and the versions in most repo's are hideously old. In other words OBS FTW :) \
27.12.2010-22:20  * Kubuntiac really should get back to investigating the obs 27.12.2010-22:21 \
< slangkamp> yeah many users use version that are really really old 27.12.2010-22:21 < \
billstei> so, how difficult would it be to break KDE dependency and be QT-only ? \
27.12.2010-22:22 < boud> about six months of work, I think. 27.12.2010-22:22 < Pentalis> \
There's a chain of dependencies. Krita -> KOffice -> KDE -> Qt. 27.12.2010-22:22 < Kubuntiac> \
Krita in next Ubuntu is currently 2.2.91... and probably will still be when 2.4 comes out... :/ \
27.12.2010-22:22 < boud> and we'd separate ourselves from the KDE community, and that's a big \
price to pay as well. 27.12.2010-22:23 < Kubuntiac> aye
27.12.2010-22:23 < billstei> and then I wouldn't get to see the Motherland
27.12.2010-22:24 < billstei> wait, are we sprinting in Germany or the Lands of Nether?
27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> not sure yet
27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> I'm going approach:
27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> * troubalex about the essen linux hotel
27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> * ton about the blender institute
27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> * bcoppens about his university (in belgium)
27.12.2010-22:25 < Kubuntiac> Mmmmm... Belgium chocolate :)
27.12.2010-22:25 < boud> though either netherlands or germany are most likely, because we've \
got residents there who can handle the visum needs 27.12.2010-22:25 -!- thorwil \
[~thorwil@p4FFB6A08.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] \
27.12.2010-22:25 < matusT> problems with kde-dependancy could be solved if someone work on that \
idea of merging kde and qt libraries... 27.12.2010-22:25 < boud> and, of course, nobody stops \
you to make a tour of europe in ten days after the sprint is over! 27.12.2010-22:25 < boud> \
matusT: the libraries aren't even the biggest problem 27.12.2010-22:26 < boud> matusT: the kde \
libs are only a couple of megs -- the big issue is the various daemons that need to be running \
and be of the right version and all that 27.12.2010-22:26 < Kubuntiac> matusT: The politics \
needed for that to happen would be...amazingly unlikely imo 27.12.2010-22:26 < Kubuntiac> not \
that I'm super informed 27.12.2010-22:27 < billstei> I only wondered because the WIndows \
installer would probably be easier for QT-only 27.12.2010-22:27 < boud> billstei: yes, it would \
be easier 27.12.2010-22:28 < boud> though we use so many other 3rd party libraries, that it's \
still not exactly easy :-) 27.12.2010-22:28 < billstei> ok right
27.12.2010-22:28 < boud> I need to go now as well -- see y'all
27.12.2010-22:29 < billstei> Linux will achieve Total World Domination in 2011 anyway
27.12.2010-22:29 < Kubuntiac> night boud!
27.12.2010-22:29 < Kubuntiac> billstei: This is the year... I can feel it! :)
27.12.2010-22:29 < matusT> billstei: i hope not
27.12.2010-22:30 < billstei> 2012 ?
27.12.2010-22:30 < Kubuntiac> It'll probably just be that Linux is running Google's servers \
when they pull it off... :/ 27.12.2010-22:30 < Kubuntiac> I for one welcome our new cloud-based \
overlords :) 27.12.2010-22:31 < slangkamp> night boud
27.12.2010-22:31 < sgrosso> good night boud :-)
27.12.2010-22:32 < Kubuntiac> k, I'm off too. bbl
27.12.2010-22:32 < slangkamp> night Kubuntiac
27.12.2010-22:34 < billstei> so if I attend the sprint what do I have do?
27.12.2010-22:34 < billstei> solve World Peace
27.12.2010-22:34 < matusT> what i need to do if i want attend sprint? :)
27.12.2010-22:36 < matusT> ok bye 
27.12.2010-22:37 -!- matusT [5f69e047@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.105.224.71] has quit [Quit: \
Page closed] 27.12.2010-22:38 -!- n-pigeon [~przemo@host166.kopernika.miedzyrzecz.com.pl] has \
joined #krita 27.12.2010-22:39 < n-pigeon> hi evbd
27.12.2010-22:40 < slangkamp> Hi n-pigeon
27.12.2010-22:40 < slangkamp> billstei: no, just attend :)
27.12.2010-22:41 < billstei> don't i have to write code like a crazy-man?
27.12.2010-22:43 -!- heroid [~heroid@178.175.75.17] has joined #krita
27.12.2010-22:44  * billstei forces himself to go build Yet Another Windows Machine
27.12.2010-22:44 < verbalshadow> billstei: don't do it , it not worth it
27.12.2010-22:44 < verbalshadow> it is 
27.12.2010-22:45 < billstei> with Vista.  It's like twisting the knife
27.12.2010-22:46 -!- mpeg [~quassel@bru67-1-82-227-48-153.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #krita
27.12.2010-22:47 -!- plassy [~quassel@ip-2-201-163-79.web.vodafone.de] has quit [Remote host \
closed the connection] 27.12.2010-22:57 < sgrosso> I have to go as well, good night everyone \
:-) 27.12.2010-22:57 < Pentalis> Good night sgrosso!
27.12.2010-22:58 < n-pigeon> cya
27.12.2010-22:58 < sgrosso> Good night everyone :-)



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