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List:       kde-kimageshop
Subject:    Log + Report of: IRC MEETING Monday 20:00 - 22:00 CET
From:       Boudewijn Rempt <boud () valdyas ! org>
Date:       2011-01-03 12:55:11
Message-ID: 201101031355.11721.boud () valdyas ! org
[Download RAW message or body]

On Thursday 30 December 2010, Adam C. wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 09:40:03 +0100, Boudewijn Rempt <boud@valdyas.org>  
> wrote:
> 
> > On Thursday 30 December 2010, Adam C. wrote:
> > 
> > > sorry that i couldn't attend. are there any logs or something?
> > I'm working on a log + report, but got sidetracked a bit by the release \
> >  and caring for Irina.
> > 
> 
> ok, all the best for irina :)

It was a fun meeting. I've attached the log. These are the basic \
resolutions:

Sponsored development:

* We still have ~2400 euros left (though I'm behind on my administration)

* Silvio will finish his sponsorship in 2011. He would like Dmitry to fix \
the crop tool (see other mail in this thread), Lukas to focus on bad bugs \
and Pentalis to write a really good mixing brush.

* For 2011, we'll try to setup a fund-raiser to have one Krita developer \
work together with the Blender people on issues they have during their next \
project. Boud will contact Ton asap.

There might be movement on the topic of windows installers for Calligra, so \
it is not likely that we'll have to spend money on that.

LGM:

Lukas, Animtim, Billstei and Kubuntiac want to go to LGM. Lukas will \
present Krita, Animtim will do a workshop. I need an overview of everyone's \
travel and accomodation costs ASAP so I can send a proposal to the KDE e.V.

Sprint:

Boud will contact ingwa/troubalex to ask how to get the Linux Hotel for the \
Krita sprint. I'll do that this week. Then we can set a date and ask \
Claudia to help with the necessary visums.

Website:

Kubuntiac and boud will review the website. We'll create a cool projects \
for newcomers page. I also want a prominent features page.

Manual:

Not much is going to happen there for now. I'm still working on it, but my \
scalability is getting worse and worse, it seems.

-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org, http://www.krita.org


["krita_meeting.log" (text/x-log)]

27.12.2010-20:01 < slangkamp> meeting here or in another channel?
27.12.2010-20:01 < sgrosso> hi everyone, I am Silvio Grosso :-)
27.12.2010-20:01 < boud>  meeting here
27.12.2010-20:01 < boud> I'm preparing the introduction right now
27.12.2010-20:02 < Pentalis> Hi!
27.12.2010-20:02 < sgrosso> Hi Pentalis :-)
27.12.2010-20:02 < boud> if we have an incursion of users or new people who \
want to contribute, please, let's wait with the beginner's questions until \
after the meeting 27.12.2010-20:02 < plassy> slangkamp: hmm... yes... that \
could be right... but german wouldn't be the problem here :P ... but of \
course i don't know how it would look in japanese or hindu 27.12.2010-20:04 \
< boud> ok... 27.12.2010-20:04 < boud> please: Let's start the \
Krita-in-2010 and what'll we do in 2011 meeting. 27.12.2010-20:04 < boud> \
we;re still missing dmitry, though 27.12.2010-20:04 < LukasT> hello
27.12.2010-20:04 < LukasT> I made it "é
27.12.2010-20:04 < boud> and he  was available around now, according to the \
doodle! 27.12.2010-20:05 < boud> LukasT: great!
27.12.2010-20:05 < boud> you rock!
27.12.2010-20:05 < boud> I'd like to start with a bit of an introduction -- \
and then we can start discussing how we can make 2011 even better than 2010 \
27.12.2010-20:06 < boud> We did a great job this year! Krita 2.3 really is \
ready to be used by real artists. Thanks to everybody. 27.12.2010-20:06 < \
LukasT> sgrosso: hi, nice to meet you on-line :) 27.12.2010-20:06 < \
sgrosso> Hi Lukas ;-) 27.12.2010-20:06  * LukasT see boud doing psssst 
27.12.2010-20:06 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-20:06 < boud> ok...
27.12.2010-20:07 < boud> Reviewing the past year: I think we really did a \
great job. We've still got ~2400 euros in cash, but I still owe dmitry for \
december 27.12.2010-20:07 < boud> I've been sick...
27.12.2010-20:08 < boud> So we've got two people working paid part-time on \
krita: Lukas and Dmitry 27.12.2010-20:08 < boud> Silvio, Pentalis and I did \
discuss sponsorship for Pentalis, for the creation of a mixing brush up to \
and above gimp-paint standards -- this seems an important feature for the \
next release, to seduce more artists 27.12.2010-20:08 -!- dmitryK \
[~dmitryK@94.232.66.212] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-20:08 < boud> hi \
dmitryK  27.12.2010-20:09 < boud> dmitryK: you might want to take me up on \
my offer of a shell account on valdyas.org, so you have access to the \
backlog :P 27.12.2010-20:09 < CyrilleB> :)
27.12.2010-20:09 < LukasT> dmitryK: http://pastebin.ca/2030720
27.12.2010-20:09 < boud> Krita 2.3 is about to be released, with just one \
known, reproducible crash bug (mpeg... !!!) 27.12.2010-20:09 < dmitryK> \
boud: when the meeting starts? I need to have a dinner 27.12.2010-20:09 < \
LukasT> dmitryK: now 27.12.2010-20:10 < boud> it started 9 minutes ago
27.12.2010-20:10 < boud> but I don't mind if you eat and attend at the same \
time. 27.12.2010-20:10 < boud> you're even allowed to speak with your mouth \
full of food! 27.12.2010-20:10 < Pentalis> Also known as eattending
27.12.2010-20:11 < LukasT> boud: more will follow about the introduction?
27.12.2010-20:12 < Kubuntiac> Pentalis: Groan! lol
27.12.2010-20:12 < boud> in 2010, we've had a great Krita sprint, \
introduced lots of people to hacking on Krita and -- I think -- finally got \
Krita out of the apology state! 27.12.2010-20:12 < Kubuntiac> \o/
27.12.2010-20:12 < slangkamp> yay
27.12.2010-20:13 < boud> so... feel free to give your input about 2010, \
good and bad for now, then let's start making plans for 2011 \
27.12.2010-20:13 < LukasT> finally we can call it software :) \
27.12.2010-20:13 < LukasT> Let me start 27.12.2010-20:14 < boud> sure, go \
ahead! 27.12.2010-20:14 < LukasT> I think this year for Krita was really \
great 27.12.2010-20:14 < slangkamp> it was!
27.12.2010-20:14 < LukasT> The two sponsored part-time developers and a lot \
of Google Summer Of Code slots was very moving thing in the community I \
think 27.12.2010-20:15 < Kubuntiac> It made lots of good news which I think \
raised community interest 27.12.2010-20:15 < Kubuntiac> All the stuff you \
guys did I mean 27.12.2010-20:15 < LukasT> Also there are really commited \
contributors of code, especially slangkamp and CyrilleB who did a lot of \
work in their spare time 27.12.2010-20:15 < LukasT> boud did great job with \
LWiK's and he started the manual 27.12.2010-20:16 < LukasT> and I think we \
managed to create good atmosphere where we mix sponsored work and hobby \
work without any conflicts 27.12.2010-20:17 < boud> there have been \
remarkably few fights in krita -- especially considering the size of our \
community and the level of activity. 27.12.2010-20:17 < boud> that's great
27.12.2010-20:17 < LukasT> I don't remember any fight, or was it?
27.12.2010-20:17 < slangkamp> me neither :)
27.12.2010-20:17 < boud> there was a big discussion some time ago without \
any resolution, so I had to call maintainer rights and make a decision \
27.12.2010-20:18 < boud> which promptly meant everyone united and did what \
I hadn't decided -- but that was great :-) 27.12.2010-20:18 < boud> I don;t \
really remember the topic, though 27.12.2010-20:18 < Kubuntiac> lol
27.12.2010-20:19 < boud> For me, this year was shear madness, but that was \
mainly because of my new job. Being a cubible-hole hacker tended to leave \
me plenty of spare time for Krita 27.12.2010-20:19 < LukasT> ok, I think \
I'm done :) 27.12.2010-20:19 < boud> working in my own company was \
different, especially since that work focussed aronud koffice -- still, I \
did make a fair number of commits 27.12.2010-20:20 < slangkamp> ok, now \
next year? 27.12.2010-20:20 < boud> as said above, we managed to finally \
"fix" krita and make it a real application people can depend on. \
27.12.2010-20:20 < boud> slangkamp: for next year... 27.12.2010-20:20 < \
boud> (unless other people want to chip in with a bit of retrospective...) \
27.12.2010-20:21 < Kubuntiac> I had fun. Thats about it for me. :) \
27.12.2010-20:22 < boud> anyone else who wants to look back a bit? \
27.12.2010-20:22 < Pentalis> I only have a small thing to say, but I think \
it's important 27.12.2010-20:22 -!- mattho \
[5f69e047@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.105.224.71] has quit [Quit: Page \
closed] 27.12.2010-20:22 -!- matusT \
[5f69e047@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.105.224.71] has joined #krita \
27.12.2010-20:22 < boud> shoot! 27.12.2010-20:22 < LukasT> Let me note that \
we should be thankful to KDE for sponsoring our sprints, both KOffice \
sprints per year and Krita sprint -- we manage to meet sometimes 3 times a \
year :) 27.12.2010-20:22 < Kubuntiac> aye
27.12.2010-20:23 < boud> Pentalis has the floor
27.12.2010-20:23 < Pentalis> I always wanted to participate of an open \
source project, but I never found a community welcoming enough, and enough \
self-discipline, or enough knowledge, to get anything done. When I \
participated for GSoC for Krita this year I could find it all. \
27.12.2010-20:23 < Pentalis> I think this community has everything needed \
to attract people of all corners of the talent slider, let's exploit that  \
:> 27.12.2010-20:23 < Pentalis> That's all.
27.12.2010-20:24 < boud> Pfui to the other projects you approached -- krita \
is the richer for your presence! 27.12.2010-20:24 -!- sgrosso \
[~chatzilla@host152-218-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit \
[Read error: Connection reset by peer] 27.12.2010-20:24 -!- sgrosso \
[~chatzilla@host152-218-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined \
#krita 27.12.2010-20:24 < boud> Anyone else about 2010?
27.12.2010-20:24 < slangkamp> I note that we also have a new record number \
of people in this channel :) 27.12.2010-20:24 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-20:25 < LukasT> CIA is listing and some Assagne is around, hm...
27.12.2010-20:25 < boud> :P
27.12.2010-20:25 < LukasT> Dear Children, Santa is Mom and Dad. Merry \
Christmas, Wikileaks 27.12.2010-20:25 < boud> okay -- about next year
27.12.2010-20:25  * dmitryK is reading backlog...  hum.. hum..
27.12.2010-20:25 < Kubuntiac> Agreed. I think the *friendliness* of the \
Krita community is unusually high and one of the things that made me stick \
around (I leave it to you all to decide if thaat's a good thing  ;P) \
27.12.2010-20:26 < boud> Kubuntiac: without you we wouldn't have a website \
- but I think there might be some work on the website soonish... \
27.12.2010-20:26 < Kubuntiac> ...! 27.12.2010-20:26 < boud> dmitryK: \
anything you want to add about 2010? 27.12.2010-20:26 < Kubuntiac> Ready \
and willing. 27.12.2010-20:28 < dmitryK> erm... 1) stress tests; 2) \
optimization of mask generation with complex maths; 3) ROI for the \
scheduler; 4) and new multithreaded system for the tools (discussed \
earlier) 27.12.2010-20:28 < dmitryK> but 4) is really too big, it worth the \
whole soc ;) 27.12.2010-20:28 < boud> dmitryK: if you want to achieve that \
in 2010, you've got some work to do! 27.12.2010-20:29 < LukasT> :)
27.12.2010-20:29 < LukasT> dmitryK: 3 days and we count it, go!
27.12.2010-20:29 < Kubuntiac> Bah. A whole 70 hours! Easy!
27.12.2010-20:30 < slangkamp> so 2011 now?
27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> yeah
27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> couple of points:
27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> Let me first enumerate them, then we can add other \
points and discuss.... 27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> fundraising and with which \
goal 27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> whither the manual
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> growing the community and keeping people coding \
outside gsoc/gci 27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> the 2011 krita sprint
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> lgm attendance (may 10-13)
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> my scalability
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> goals for krita as an application
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> any other points?
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> (no particular order implied in my list...)
27.12.2010-20:32 < Pentalis> You mean things for 2011?, Krita Windows \
client. 27.12.2010-20:32 < Kubuntiac> packaging? (OBS, windows etc?) may be \
under "growing the community" 27.12.2010-20:32 < LukasT> I would add \
brainstorm the projects 27.12.2010-20:32 < boud> windows is a good point to \
put separately. I have some insider info on that, though. 27.12.2010-20:32 \
< LukasT> just titles and then we can note them  27.12.2010-20:32 < \
Kubuntiac> ! 27.12.2010-20:33 < boud> LukasT: sure
27.12.2010-20:33 < boud> we've got dmitry's goals, right -- and that means \
dmitry wants to go for a gsoc again, if I understand him correctly \
27.12.2010-20:35 < LukasT> I had idea to put one krita developer for some \
fixed time frame into Blender's project 27.12.2010-20:35 < boud> this is \
what I have now: 27.12.2010-20:35 < boud> http://pastebin.com/UsFeDa7B
27.12.2010-20:35 < boud> LukasT: can you explain a bit more about that?
27.12.2010-20:35 < LukasT> and that would need fund raising so that he can \
stay with the team 27.12.2010-20:36 < LukasT> Blender is going to do some \
new project again -- open source movie. And they usually have requirements \
and they have blender coders around who code what they need. \
27.12.2010-20:37 < LukasT> I think it would take a lot of attention to \
Krita if we would offer Krita developer for few weeks to work with the team \
so that they can use Krita 27.12.2010-20:37 < LukasT> he would solve the \
issues they have, fix bugs etc. 27.12.2010-20:37 < LukasT> but it is just \
crazy idea , what do you think? :) 27.12.2010-20:38 < boud> it's a good \
idea -- though I see one drawback 27.12.2010-20:38 < matusT> very good idea \
:) 27.12.2010-20:38 < boud> it would mean giving Ton direct influence on \
what goes into Krita -- but that might be ok 27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> \
branch 27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> krita-blender
27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> and we can merge what we want
27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> that's how they do it with blender
27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> not everything is going into the master
27.12.2010-20:39 < boud> it could work very well
27.12.2010-20:39 < dmitryK> LukasT: it would be better if that developer \
had a direct access to the blender team (i mean living in the same \
country/city/house... ) 27.12.2010-20:39 < LukasT> they have some render \
branch if I remember correctly 27.12.2010-20:39 < slangkamp> first we have \
to get their requirements 27.12.2010-20:39 < boud> if it's for a month, we \
can figure out something 27.12.2010-20:39 < slangkamp> that was the problem \
last year 27.12.2010-20:39 < LukasT> dmitryK: yep, here comes the \
fundraising to allow that 27.12.2010-20:39 < LukasT> slangkamp: I agree
27.12.2010-20:39 < Kubuntiac> I think its a great idea. We can always have \
a blender branch and cherry pick. Durian movie was made with an \
"unofficial" build of Blender that then cherry picked 27.12.2010-20:39 < \
boud> and it needs coordination with the blender team of course, but I can \
see it work out 27.12.2010-20:40 < LukasT> only problem I see is, who is \
going to be the developer :) I can't though I wish I could,I'm working \
full-time :( 27.12.2010-20:40 < Kubuntiac> me! me! me!... actually probably \
not a good idea... 27.12.2010-20:40 < billstei> what is the time-frame for \
the next Blender project/movie? 27.12.2010-20:40 < boud> yeah, that's an \
issue. But we first need to figure out the timeframe 27.12.2010-20:41 < \
LukasT> I think it is not set yet 27.12.2010-20:41 < boud> billstei: is \
right -- I'm not sure about when they start, but I can find out \
27.12.2010-20:41 < Kubuntiac> Ton has said "after blender final is out" \
27.12.2010-20:41 < LukasT> Ton mentioned something in the keynote  \
27.12.2010-20:41 < slangkamp> timeframe isn't set from what I saw in the \
video form blender conference 27.12.2010-20:41 < LukasT> Kubuntiac: but he \
was kidding then :) 27.12.2010-20:41 < Kubuntiac> He's been very vague but \
hinted probably later this year 27.12.2010-20:41 < LukasT> yes, somewhere \
in the end of the may 2011 or something they will start 27.12.2010-20:42 < \
boud> so... plenty of time to figure something out and start a campaign. \
Action point for me, ask Ton about this plan? 27.12.2010-20:42 < slangkamp> \
the good thing if we say that we are working on features for blender people \
we can get help from the much bigger blender community 27.12.2010-20:42 < \
billstei> what kinds of changes will the Blender ppl be looking for?  \
usability or features? 27.12.2010-20:42 < LukasT> performance
27.12.2010-20:42 < LukasT> stability
27.12.2010-20:43 < boud> and features... usability I doubt...
27.12.2010-20:43 < Kubuntiac> openexr working really well
27.12.2010-20:43 < boud> but we had lots of input this year already
27.12.2010-20:43 < Kubuntiac> (Which it may be already, I dont know)
27.12.2010-20:43 < slangkamp> yeah ton doesn't care much about usuability
27.12.2010-20:43 < LukasT> :D
27.12.2010-20:43 < boud> with openexr in krita being "correct" but not \
compatible with the way blender messed openexr up. 27.12.2010-20:44 < boud> \
but we can discuss that with ton 27.12.2010-20:44 < billstei> ton = ?
27.12.2010-20:44 < Kubuntiac> Lead dev of blender
27.12.2010-20:44 < slangkamp> ton roosendaal
27.12.2010-20:44 < boud> ton roosendaal, the blender benevolent dictator \
for life 27.12.2010-20:44 < billstei> ok
27.12.2010-20:44 < Spell> dictator, huh?
27.12.2010-20:45 < billstei> I would also like to hear the needs of ppl \
like David Revoy 27.12.2010-20:45 < boud> we still have an offer for \
getting 2.3 release publicity for krita through the blender blog -- and I \
still need to write the text. 27.12.2010-20:45 -!- sinozzuke \
[~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed \
the connection] 27.12.2010-20:45 < LukasT> Ok, next?
27.12.2010-20:45 < slangkamp> most important is that we have a list of \
things that the blender people need, last year we were too late and they \
were to busy with the movie 27.12.2010-20:45 < Kubuntiac> boud: I'm happy \
to help with any editing if you want an English native speaker \
27.12.2010-20:45 < Pentalis> I remember their most important needs: freely \
rotating canvas, customizable hotkeys for everything, quality mixbrush \
(preferably of watercolor tendencies) 27.12.2010-20:45 < boud> billstei: \
david revoy hangs out here regularly. krita still isn't fast enough for \
him, though -- but the last time he tried it was more like "I'm not \
completely familiar yet, and I am in a hurry now" 27.12.2010-20:46 -!- \
sinozzuke [~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #krita \
27.12.2010-20:46  * Pentalis corrects himself after reading boud, "their \
most important needs other than performance and stability" 27.12.2010-20:46 \
< boud> Pentalis: well, hotkeys and mix brush is something we need to focus \
on 27.12.2010-20:46 < boud> LukasT: right, I've got an action point and \
I'll contact Ton this year 27.12.2010-20:47 < boud> so -- next
27.12.2010-20:47 < LukasT> Manual
27.12.2010-20:47 < slangkamp> boud: did you hear anything from Dreamworks?
27.12.2010-20:47 < Kubuntiac> I think there's some definite usability stuff \
that could be improved without much coding, but failing that docs on how \
Kirta's system works as its quite different to PS / Gimp / 27.12.2010-20:47 \
< boud> I've horribly over-estimated my own spare time for the manual :-( \
27.12.2010-20:48 < LukasT> boud: ok, do we need to sponsor you to find \
time? 27.12.2010-20:48 < boud> slangkamp: no, though Imailed them tw times
27.12.2010-20:48 < boud> LukasT: I'm too overcommitted
27.12.2010-20:48 < verbalshadow> boud: it is up somewhere we can look \
at/edit? 27.12.2010-20:48 < boud> verbalshadow: yes, on userbase.kde.org
27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> verbalshadow: what we need for the manual is one \
author, to keep consistency of style 27.12.2010-20:49 < LukasT> boud: ok, \
but there is this point manual, if we would fund raise that one, what the \
money will be used for? 27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> verbalshadow: and then a \
host of people to fix it up, do screenshots and then edit 27.12.2010-20:49 \
< LukasT> I noticed e.g. in Inkscape that they don't do fund raising for \
books or manuals 27.12.2010-20:49 < LukasT> but I might be mistaken..
27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> LukasT: well
27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> the difference is, inkscape is big enough that \
publishers pay authors (badly) to write books 27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> and \
that helps a lot 27.12.2010-20:50 < boud> and though irina has done her \
first bit of artwork with Krita, I doubt she's got the knowledge about \
raster graphics apps to write a handbook 27.12.2010-20:50 < verbalshadow> \
LukasT: we have done flossmanuals drives in inkscape 27.12.2010-20:50 < \
LukasT> verbalshadow: yes, good point, can you share what they provide? \
27.12.2010-20:51 < slangkamp> so we just need to grow big enough that \
people are paid to write books about Krita 27.12.2010-20:51 < Kubuntiac> \
Seems to me that if we focus on getting the app out to users (ie OBS / Win \
/ Mac) we get more non-coder contributors to work on doco etc \
27.12.2010-20:51 < boud> slangkamp: I trust that we reach that point in \
2011, actually! Depending ontheir being a windows installer. \
27.12.2010-20:51 < Kubuntiac> Right now we need all our coders, well, \
coding :) 27.12.2010-20:51 < verbalshadow> they provide a wiki like editing \
environment and output to pdf and other formats IIRC 27.12.2010-20:51 < \
LukasT> we already have Mag. Leonhard Landrock 27.12.2010-20:51 < LukasT> \
he also worked on the manual 27.12.2010-20:51 < LukasT> verbalshadow: they \
don't fund, ya? 27.12.2010-20:52 < verbalshadow> not that i recall, we have \
promoted books by community members like Tav 27.12.2010-20:53 < slangkamp> \
once there are books we could earn some money from that too \
27.12.2010-20:53 < LukasT> I personally think we should focus for 2011 on \
fundraising the development again.  27.12.2010-20:54 < LukasT> I would \
post-pone the manual, what other thinks? 27.12.2010-20:54 < boud> well
27.12.2010-20:54 < boud> I think that getting interesting in writing a \
manual is dependent on having a good version of krita for windows \
27.12.2010-20:54 < Kubuntiac> I think a manual is mainly important when yo \
uhave users to use it, thus my focus on easy deployment for users \
27.12.2010-20:54 < boud> I also think that writing a manual now is \
speculative, but could really pay out for the author 27.12.2010-20:54 < \
verbalshadow> http://userbase.kde.org/Applications/en is anyone else see \
non-english on this page? 27.12.2010-20:55 < verbalshadow> seeing
27.12.2010-20:55 < boud> verbalshadow: yes :-). Looks like Romanian
27.12.2010-20:55 < Kubuntiac> Yeah I see something...looks like... Catlan?
27.12.2010-20:55 < LukasT> http://userbase.kde.org/Applications
27.12.2010-20:56 < LukasT> that works in english
27.12.2010-20:56 < Pentalis> -- I believe getting Krita packaged for \
Windows will attract more users than a well written manual. My rationale \
is: Windows users are numerous, there is bound to be some of them making \
posts in their blogs, comments in Wikis, and maybe even a YouTube video \
explaining the software if they grow to love it.   ----  They did it with \
SAI, and I've seen it grow constantly in popularity. 27.12.2010-20:56 < \
boud> ok 27.12.2010-20:56 < boud> let's go to the windows version then
27.12.2010-20:56 < slangkamp> but the windows version needs to be good
27.12.2010-20:56 < boud> yes
27.12.2010-20:57 < boud> two things I want to note before we start the \
discussion: 27.12.2010-20:57 < Pentalis> Yes, it must be as good as the \
Linux version which in turn needs to be fabulous, or the chance to win hype \
will be wasted. 27.12.2010-20:57 < LukasT> Just note that Windows version \
does not bring Windows developers \
http://prokoudine.info/blog/2010/12/the-more-the-better/ 27.12.2010-20:57 < \
Kubuntiac> I was thinking about that post 27.12.2010-20:57 < boud> * the \
digikam windows installer works -- but they are kept back by the quality of \
kde on windows 27.12.2010-20:57 < Kubuntiac> I think the problem is he \
makes no distinction between users and community 27.12.2010-20:57 < boud> \
for gimp, it doesn't bring developers, but it does bring a stream of money, \
articles and books 27.12.2010-20:58 < Kubuntiac> Gimp has a lot of users, \
but it doesn't seem that community focussed for it's size. Compare that to \
Blender. 27.12.2010-20:58 < boud> * there's a foundation in the netherlands \
that might want to sponsor KO to create a calligra installer for windows \
27.12.2010-20:58 < LukasT> oh, that sounds good 27.12.2010-20:58 < boud> if \
there's a calligra installer, krita will be easy. And KO GmbH has currently \
a job candidate who's an expert on windows installers and things \
27.12.2010-20:59 < boud> so I hope that the installer will come; the \
problem will still be the quality of the kde libs on windows. \
27.12.2010-20:59 < slangkamp> cool 27.12.2010-20:59 < billstei> so the \
WIndows version is dependent on KDE or QT ? 27.12.2010-20:59 < LukasT> \
billstei: both 27.12.2010-20:59 < slangkamp> both
27.12.2010-20:59 < boud> billstei: both
27.12.2010-20:59 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-20:59 < billstei> :(
27.12.2010-21:00  * dmitryK 's english reading is too slow to get it time \
with others typing =) 27.12.2010-21:00 < boud> and it's not even the \
libraries that are the problem: it's the daemons, imo. 27.12.2010-21:00 < \
LukasT> dmitryK: we can change the language to german, I'm in Munich, they \
don't speak English there so I'm trapped 27.12.2010-21:01 < boud> ach, \
nein! Nicht auf Deutch!  27.12.2010-21:01 < LukasT> boud: would it give \
sense to fund raise somebody from Krita to support the KO effort ? \
27.12.2010-21:01 < boud> LukasT: I don't think so. 27.12.2010-21:01 < boud> \
LukasT: if the KO thing doesn't work out, then we'll have to make a new \
plan 27.12.2010-21:01 < Kubuntiac> Probably better to help efforts for KO \
to raise funds for themselves 27.12.2010-21:01 < boud> otherwise we'll just \
be duplicating effort, I think. 27.12.2010-21:01 < LukasT> ok, let's make \
it conditional point  27.12.2010-21:02 < dmitryK> well, men, what i \
understood from the discussion: "We need to make it very stable and very \
user friendly first. That is the starting point of every way." \
27.12.2010-21:02 < LukasT> dmitryK: wrong 27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> so, \
Windows is important, but we don't have to spend effort on it. \
27.12.2010-21:02 < LukasT> dmitryK: stable and fast 27.12.2010-21:02 < \
boud> LukasT: dmitryK is right 27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> ah, ok
27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> stable is the main thing :-)
27.12.2010-21:02 < LukasT> we don't care about user friendy, we here on IRC \
are user friendly already 27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> we really need to become \
as allergic to crashes as the Nasa is :P 27.12.2010-21:03 < dmitryK> \
LukasT: i think user-friendly includes the definition of "fast" =) \
27.12.2010-21:03 < LukasT> ok, then the Windows installer is solved \
27.12.2010-21:03 < boud> LGM now? 27.12.2010-21:03 < LukasT> ok
27.12.2010-21:03 < LukasT> I would like to attend the LGM in Canada
27.12.2010-21:03 < boud> LukasT and Animtim intend to go to LGM in \
Montreal, right? 27.12.2010-21:04 < boud> Both need to submit presentations \
and ask KDE e.V. for sponsorship -- but that won't be a problem \
27.12.2010-21:04 < Kubuntiac> I may be able to make Montreal, too \
27.12.2010-21:04 < boud> I also think that it won't be a problem for others \
to go and get sponsorship 27.12.2010-21:04 < LukasT> I would like to report \
our progress in Krita development and do some showcase of the hot features \
and not just paintops this time 27.12.2010-21:04 < boud> Kubuntiac: you're \
no doubt eligible for sponsorship as well 27.12.2010-21:04 < boud> LukasT: \
right 27.12.2010-21:04 < Kubuntiac> he, I don't think Id need it
27.12.2010-21:04 < Kubuntiac> Its one 5 hours drive from here
27.12.2010-21:05 < boud> anyone else who wants to go?
27.12.2010-21:05 < LukasT> Animtim's role would be to do some Krita \
workshop 27.12.2010-21:05 < boud> Pentalis, billstei: you're in the same \
half of the globe, aren't you? 27.12.2010-21:05 < Pentalis> boud: Same \
half, different quarter 27.12.2010-21:06 < LukasT> :D
27.12.2010-21:06 < billstei> yes, I would go but is the cost justified?
27.12.2010-21:06 < boud> Pentalis: still....
27.12.2010-21:06 < kig> re: stable, do you have unit tests? 
27.12.2010-21:06 < dmitryK> btw, about speed: Krita's blur filter on core 2 \
duo works slower than PS7 on AthlonXP 2000+ eight years old =( \
27.12.2010-21:06 < boud> billstei: kde contributors get funded to visit \
conferences like this 27.12.2010-21:06  * Pentalis googles LGM quickly to \
see what it is about 27.12.2010-21:06 < boud> Kubuntiac: yes, about a \
hundred 27.12.2010-21:07 < boud> dmitryK: shall I put that under your \
action points? 27.12.2010-21:07 < billstei> I will go if someone pays for \
(most of) it 27.12.2010-21:07 < LukasT> dmitryK: fix it!
27.12.2010-21:07 < LukasT> :)
27.12.2010-21:07 < Kubuntiac> boud: eh? 100 what?
27.12.2010-21:07 < boud> Kubuntiac: about a hundred unittests
27.12.2010-21:07 < boud> it was meant for kig ...
27.12.2010-21:07 < Kubuntiac> kig != kubuntiac :)
27.12.2010-21:07 < boud> stupid autocompletely, why can't it read my mind
27.12.2010-21:07 < Pentalis> boud: I don't think I am prepared to go there \
in 2011, I think 2012 will be the year (if the world doesn't end by then  \
;)  ) 27.12.2010-21:07 < Kubuntiac> because you haven't coded it yet :)
27.12.2010-21:07 < dmitryK> boud: i didn't even tried to get into it yet
27.12.2010-21:08 < boud> Pentalis: let's try to get you to the krita \
sprint, though 27.12.2010-21:08 < boud> so... for lgm -- we've added \
billstei to the list of attendees. Anyone else? 27.12.2010-21:08 < dmitryK> \
LukasT: it's just about optimization on design level of newly written \
paitops ;P 27.12.2010-21:08 < boud> I think I might just be too busy, \
though I haven't got any travel booked for May yet... 27.12.2010-21:08 < \
Kubuntiac> boud: When is the sprint? 27.12.2010-21:08 < boud> Kubuntiac: we \
need to discuss that next 27.12.2010-21:09  * Kubuntiac wants to make the \
sprint if possible, depoending on the wheres and whens 27.12.2010-21:09  * \
billstei wonders if he needs a passport for Canada 27.12.2010-21:09 < boud> \
billstei: officially, KDE e.V. pays 80 percent of travel/accomodation. \
Often it's 100%/ 27.12.2010-21:09 < Kubuntiac> billstei: yup, I think
27.12.2010-21:09 < billstei> 80% will do it
27.12.2010-21:09 < Kubuntiac> billstei: I need one to enter the US
27.12.2010-21:10 < LukasT> boud: wasn't it somehow related if you give a \
presentation/workshop? 27.12.2010-21:10 < boud> LukasT: yes, but even \
there, there's flexibility. Especially for people who are relatively new to \
KDE 27.12.2010-21:10 < verbalshadow> LukasT: have you ever played with the \
drawing program expression3, it has some neat brush ideas 27.12.2010-21:10 \
< LukasT> verbalshadow: notes that one -- no 27.12.2010-21:10 < billstei> i \
don't have much to say (yet) 27.12.2010-21:11 < boud> billstei: but a lot \
to learn... 27.12.2010-21:11 < billstei> mostly just complaining
27.12.2010-21:11 < boud> there's some very good beer in Montreal, as well.
27.12.2010-21:11 < billstei> Workshop: Whining and Bitching
27.12.2010-21:12 < billstei> (includes free, as in beer)
27.12.2010-21:12 < LukasT> :D
27.12.2010-21:12 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-21:12 < LukasT> :D
27.12.2010-21:12 < boud> ok
27.12.2010-21:12 < Pentalis> dmitryK: The blur filter uses the fast foutier \
transform method of convolution, we're using an external library (FFTW) \
which is optimized to the brim in speed, so if there are bottlenecks, I \
think these are in other parts of the code. 27.12.2010-21:12 < boud> I need \
to take short break myself, after that, let's discuss the 2011 sprint \
27.12.2010-21:14  * CyrilleB read a bit the backlog... wrt openexr, I think \
blender 2.50 is "fixed", but we need to fix some performance issues related \
to ctl/rgbf 27.12.2010-21:14 < billstei> i have bad knees, I can't sprint \
anywhere except the toilet 27.12.2010-21:14 < verbalshadow> billstei: i \
would attend your talk 27.12.2010-21:14 < LukasT> == ok, so here come the \
short commercial break ==  27.12.2010-21:15 < dmitryK> we just need: place, \
time and who will be able to make visa(s) ;) 27.12.2010-21:15 < CyrilleB> \
small things to decide 27.12.2010-21:15 < LukasT> I was offering to help \
boud back in Helsinki 27.12.2010-21:15 < LukasT> with the organization
27.12.2010-21:15 < LukasT> but I'm in munich for 3 months
27.12.2010-21:15 < LukasT> I though it would be somewhere in Slovakia
27.12.2010-21:16 < kig> boud: one thing that might be useful for catching \
crashes is fuzz testing (write a small script that generates random valid \
function calls, let it rip on the API). at least it's been very helpful for \
finding segfaults in my code 27.12.2010-21:16 < LukasT> kig: krita is quite \
huge for this 27.12.2010-21:16 < LukasT> kig: and we don't use scripts \
currently, we use users to find them 27.12.2010-21:16 < boud> kig: yes, \
that's a great idea. Can you help with that? 27.12.2010-21:17 < boud> I am \
planning fuzzing for the calligra opendocument code, but i haven't \
considered it for krita yet 27.12.2010-21:17 < boud> And I'm not sure where \
to start 27.12.2010-21:17 < CyrilleB> different kind of fuzzing
27.12.2010-21:18 < dmitryK> kig: what is the difference between fuzzing and \
random stresstesting? 27.12.2010-21:18 < kig> hmm, i can at least do a test \
generator 27.12.2010-21:18 < kig> dmitryK: i have no idea, really
27.12.2010-21:18 < kig> the prob is that you kinda need a well-defined api \
to test 27.12.2010-21:19 < verbalshadow> random stress testing isn't always \
limited to valid inputs 27.12.2010-21:19 < boud> well, if you can give it a \
try... even if the outcome is that the api needs fixing, it's valuable. \
27.12.2010-21:19 < LukasT> short commercial break over? 27.12.2010-21:19 < \
boud> yes, I'm back again :-) 27.12.2010-21:19 < LukasT> ok, the sprint
27.12.2010-21:19 < boud> the sprint
27.12.2010-21:19 < LukasT> Slovakia
27.12.2010-21:19 < LukasT> problems: I'm in Munich
27.12.2010-21:20 < LukasT> cons: cheap food and possibly cheap hotels
27.12.2010-21:20 < CyrilleB> and it is not that cheap :)
27.12.2010-21:20 < boud> and it's not a cheap as everyone thougt...
27.12.2010-21:20 < LukasT> pros of course
27.12.2010-21:20 < LukasT> I mixed it
27.12.2010-21:20 < boud> so, we need a location with a meeting room big \
enough for the bigger team. We won't fit in my house anymore \
27.12.2010-21:20 < Kubuntiac> :( 27.12.2010-21:20 < LukasT> :)
27.12.2010-21:21 < boud> renting a suitable space will be ~500 euros for \
the weekend in .nl, excluding coffee 27.12.2010-21:21 < Kubuntiac> true, :)
27.12.2010-21:21 < jonnor> when are you holding this sprint?
27.12.2010-21:21 < LukasT> I would propose maybe KDAB's office?
27.12.2010-21:21 < LukasT> they used to pay one dinner ...
27.12.2010-21:21 < LukasT> jonnor: not set yet
27.12.2010-21:21 < boud> well, we're in kdab's office already for the \
calligra sprint, and I hate to impose 27.12.2010-21:21 < boud> jonnor: Q1, \
preferably 27.12.2010-21:21 < slangkamp> boud: we could ask ton for the \
blender institue ;) 27.12.2010-21:21 < boud> slangkamp: good idea, I'll ask \
that 27.12.2010-21:22 < Pentalis> Chile. Advantages: cheap food, cheap \
hotels, no need for Visas. Disadvantages: nobody will understand a word, \
it's on the other side of the planet. 27.12.2010-21:22 < CyrilleB> and \
direct flight to amsterdam :) 27.12.2010-21:22 < LukasT> Amsterdam is not \
cheap :( 27.12.2010-21:22 < CyrilleB> boud: there is the linux hotel too
27.12.2010-21:22 < boud> yes, that's a good option.
27.12.2010-21:22 < LukasT> CyrilleB: free as in beer?
27.12.2010-21:22 < billstei> Minneapolis: cons: snow, snow, snow  Pros: ?
27.12.2010-21:22 < boud> So action point for me; ask ton about blender \
instititue and ask troubalex/ingwa about the linux hotel. 27.12.2010-21:23 \
< boud> billstei: good beer? 27.12.2010-21:23 -!- sinozzuke \
[~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: \
Connection reset by peer] 27.12.2010-21:23 < billstei> *cold* beer
27.12.2010-21:23 < Kubuntiac> We also have room in North Ontario for 12-14 \
:) Not many pubs within 100k though 27.12.2010-21:23 -!- sinozzuke \
[~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #krita \
27.12.2010-21:23 < LukasT> Linux hotel is in Amsterdam? 27.12.2010-21:23 < \
CyrilleB> billstei: I would classify snow as pros :) 27.12.2010-21:23 < \
dmitryK> billstei: pros: snow, snow, snow! ;) 27.12.2010-21:23 < boud> and \
minneapolis is the home of my favourite web comic 27.12.2010-21:23  * \
dmitryK is for Minneapoli 27.12.2010-21:23 < boud> LukasT: no, near Essen
27.12.2010-21:23 < CyrilleB> LukasT: nope
27.12.2010-21:23 < slangkamp> LukasT: well after Oslo everything is cheaper \
:) 27.12.2010-21:23 < LukasT> slangkamp: :)
27.12.2010-21:24 < dmitryK> slangkamp: +1
27.12.2010-21:24 < CyrilleB> billstei: but I would say con: minneapolis is \
in the US ;) 27.12.2010-21:24 < boud> yeah, let's never ever go to Oslo \
again 27.12.2010-21:24 < CyrilleB> slangkamp: we could go to switzerland ;)
27.12.2010-21:24 < LukasT> Americans!
27.12.2010-21:24  * billstei is not actually from Minneapolis
27.12.2010-21:24 < boud> ok... I think I've got an action point
27.12.2010-21:24 < slangkamp> CyrilleB: no!
27.12.2010-21:25 < CyrilleB> if we go to switzerland, we might even get \
bart back ;p 27.12.2010-21:25 < boud> one thing I wanted to ask was: how \
difficult will it be for people to attend for a longer period than just the \
weekend? 27.12.2010-21:25 < boud> bart!
27.12.2010-21:25 < Pentalis> I have no difficulties of any kind. Wherever \
the sprint is, my biggest problem will be getting the visa. \
27.12.2010-21:25 < boud> I should ask him about room at his university \
27.12.2010-21:25 < dmitryK> boud: for me the only problem is military \
department, but i think this is doable 27.12.2010-21:25 < LukasT> in Q1 I \
don't have many vacation :( 27.12.2010-21:26 < dmitryK> boud: so actually, \
it can be solved 27.12.2010-21:26 < boud> dmitryK: cool
27.12.2010-21:26 < slangkamp> boud: depends on the date
27.12.2010-21:26 < CyrilleB> boud: I will probably limit myself to the \
week-end 27.12.2010-21:26 < boud> LukasT: I don't have a lot of holidays \
either, and at least one business trip every month this year, or so it \
seems... 27.12.2010-21:26 < boud> CyrilleB: ok
27.12.2010-21:26 < boud> slangkamp: ok, we need to figure that out
27.12.2010-21:27 < billstei> i can do the sprint for a whole year
27.12.2010-21:27 < LukasT> I will be limited to the weekend +- 2 days \
maximum  27.12.2010-21:27 < boud> I guess that in the end, .nl is easiest, \
both travel-wise and visum-wise, since I can be host and do the paperwork. \
27.12.2010-21:27  * LukasT nostalgically remembers the awesome week  \
27.12.2010-21:27  * Kubuntiac wants to see .nl 27.12.2010-21:27  * LukasT \
would prefer .de 27.12.2010-21:28  * LukasT likes the german food 
27.12.2010-21:28 < Kubuntiac> :)
27.12.2010-21:28 < boud> for .de, slangkamp will have to do all the visum \
stuff, or maybe we can get claudia to fix it. 27.12.2010-21:29 < LukasT> \
ok, sprint point done? 27.12.2010-21:30 < boud> I guess -- we want one, and \
it's up to me to fix a location and date. And it might be a bit longer than \
just the weekend, but with flexible attendance. 27.12.2010-21:30 < boud> \
and .nl or .de are easiest, visum wise. 27.12.2010-21:30 < billstei> what \
about fundum-wise? 27.12.2010-21:30 < boud> billstei: KDE e.V. funds sprint \
travel + accomodation 27.12.2010-21:30 < billstei> no way
27.12.2010-21:31 < Kubuntiac> We love you KDE Ev!
27.12.2010-21:31 < billstei> i could see the Motherland
27.12.2010-21:31 < boud> which doesn't mean that we shouldn't be careful \
and check the cheapest option, but last year shicmap came from Canada, no \
problems there. 27.12.2010-21:31 < slangkamp> date also depends on the \
location, I guess blender institute and linux hotel could have limitations \
27.12.2010-21:31 < boud> and KDE e.V. is very supportive of bringing people \
together from everywhere. 27.12.2010-21:31 < LukasT> Every airplane path \
seem to lead to amsterdam.. 27.12.2010-21:32 < Kubuntiac> lol
27.12.2010-21:32 < boud> LukasT: it's the third or fourth biggest air hub \
in the world... 27.12.2010-21:32 < Kubuntiac> itsthe new rome :)
27.12.2010-21:32 < Kubuntiac> as in all roads lead to...
27.12.2010-21:32 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-21:32 < boud> Ok
27.12.2010-21:33 < boud> one big point left, as far as I can tell -- and \
that's gsoc/gci and how can we keep the people who entered the project \
through these programs active 27.12.2010-21:33 < boud> and the \
brainstorming 27.12.2010-21:33  * LukasT away for  minutes
27.12.2010-21:33 < LukasT> 5 minutes and I'm back
27.12.2010-21:34 < boud> I need to kiss my daughters goodnight, so afk as \
well 27.12.2010-21:34 < matusT> i will stay active after end of gci :)
27.12.2010-21:34 < dmitryK> boud: suggest a cool project afterwards?
27.12.2010-21:34 < Kubuntiac> I'd say keeping people involved is about a) \
Keeping them updated, b) making it easy to get started (ie marking junior \
jobs) and c) asking :) 27.12.2010-21:34 < billstei> More Mahnay
27.12.2010-21:35 < CyrilleB> LukasT: the only three places with more \
airtraffic in europe are london, paris and frankfurt ;) (I can't say for \
frankfurt, but the other two places are very expensive) 27.12.2010-21:35 < \
CyrilleB> Kubuntiac: b) -> well they don't need junior jobs anymore :) \
27.12.2010-21:35 < Kubuntiac> ? 27.12.2010-21:36 < boud> billstei: while \
the sponsorship certainly has helped Krita a lot this year, I would like to \
make sure gsoc/gci people don't stay around just because of the shekels. \
27.12.2010-21:37  * LukasT back 27.12.2010-21:38 < LukasT> Ok, I will show \
some problem I see 27.12.2010-21:38 < boud> dmitryK: but yes, we might want \
to spend a bit of time creating a good page with cool projects at the next \
sprint. The one we made for LukasT' universit was a good start, I think. \
27.12.2010-21:38 < boud> LukasT: you've the floor 27.12.2010-21:38 < \
LukasT> I think we should have some rules how to select the developers that \
will be sponsored 27.12.2010-21:38 < Kubuntiac> boud: I'm up for helping \
with that 27.12.2010-21:39 < boud> Kubuntiac: ok, noted -- let's get \
together this week and convert the text in a project ideas page for \
krita.org 27.12.2010-21:39 < LukasT> E.g. I think the developer should have \
enough knowledge  27.12.2010-21:39 < Kubuntiac> boud: k
27.12.2010-21:39 < boud> LukasT: we're talking about gsoc/gci students \
here, not sponsored developers 27.12.2010-21:39 < LukasT> ah, ok different \
topic  27.12.2010-21:39 < LukasT> ?
27.12.2010-21:39 < boud> I think so
27.12.2010-21:40 < CyrilleB> yes, it is how to keep the people who got paid \
when they are not paid anymore :) 27.12.2010-21:40 < LukasT> in my case it \
is clear 27.12.2010-21:40 < LukasT> I take Krita as hobby also
27.12.2010-21:40 < LukasT> I'm funded for doing dirty work, fixing bugs
27.12.2010-21:41 < Kubuntiac> Emphasising the value of helping FOSS as a CV \
piece may help... 27.12.2010-21:41 < LukasT> that is not my hobby, I have \
enough bugs in my full-time job :) 27.12.2010-21:41 < boud> Kubuntiac: the \
weird thing is, it's certainly true -- I never hire anyone who hasn't got a \
lot of foss experience 27.12.2010-21:41 < LukasT> yep, CV entry can help \
sometimes 27.12.2010-21:42 < boud> and the same goes for lots of other \
interesting jobs 27.12.2010-21:42 < Kubuntiac> Working on FOSS is free, \
industry relevant training... 27.12.2010-21:42 < LukasT> but really \
sometimes :) 27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> ~~~~ Incoming wall of text ~~~~
27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> My proposal to set goals:
27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> INTRO --- Everyone contributing to Krita has \
different interests and skills, just like users have different expectations \
of what the software should do. So far, roadmaps have been done by \
developers taking into account user feedback. However, opening the process \
even more could be benefical. 27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> PROPOSAL --- \
Creating a Wiki or simple message board where users can add a feature wish, \
the importance (to them) of this feature wish (in numbers), as well as \
explaining why it is important/useful to them.    Yes, KDE Bugzilla already \
offers a similar infrastructure for Wishes, but it is lacking.   This \
infrastructure should automatically sum scores of relative importance to \
wishes, thus making it much easier to gauge what users want from the \
software. 27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> And some tasks are bound to be \
easier than others, there hobbist new developers can test their skill and \
make their first commits, feel happy that they did something meaningful to \
all those people wanting the feature, and get their developer account if \
they want to stay.   27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> FINAL NOTE --- This is \
only a proposal to organize goals, I'm sure it'll help keeping contributors \
motivated or may make bringing contributors a bit easier, but I still am \
not sure how to make them stay. 27.12.2010-21:42  * Pentalis hides from the \
lynching 27.12.2010-21:42 < Kubuntiac> slogan: "Change the world. Get a \
great job. Free training. Ask me how!" :) 27.12.2010-21:43 < boud> \
Pentalis: ok... this sounds like the kde brainstorm forum, but focussed on \
Krita 27.12.2010-21:43 < boud> Pentalis: it's a good idea -- maybe we can \
create a new forum for it and advertise it a bit? 27.12.2010-21:43 < \
CyrilleB> (or use kde brainstorm :) ) 27.12.2010-21:44 < Kubuntiac> It \
really *does* sound like bugs.kde.org to me... they add up the votes, too \
:) I just wish brainstorm forum had separation of idea fro implementation \
like ubuntu brainstorm 27.12.2010-21:44 < Pentalis> boud CyrilleB: (attempt \
at mixing feedback) use kde brainstorm with a forum specific to Krita and \
advertise it with a BIG banner in krita.org? 27.12.2010-21:45  * Pentalis \
checks kde brainstorm which he didn't even know of its existance \
27.12.2010-21:45 < billstei> and kde brainstorm adds up votes?  like a \
poll? 27.12.2010-21:45 < boud> I never manage to look at the wishes in \
bugzilla -- there's just too much of it, and for wishes, a forum might work \
better 27.12.2010-21:45 < Kubuntiac> Without separation of idea / \
implementation you get vague but huge ideas with a zillion votes like "Make \
Krita perfect! (10,0000 votes)" 27.12.2010-21:45 < CyrilleB> Pentalis: kde \
brainstorm has tags, no need for subforum 27.12.2010-21:45 < Kubuntiac> \
billstei: Yes, you can see votes added on the idea 27.12.2010-21:46 < \
Kubuntiac> You don't see all ideas ranked by vote though (I think)  \
27.12.2010-21:46 < CyrilleB> here are all the brainstorms for krita \
http://forum.kde.org/search.php?tags=krita&sr=topics 27.12.2010-21:46 < \
Pentalis> The most important feature is the auto-talling of votes / \
relative importance and automatic building of a ranking of most popular \
feature requests; all those automatizable tasks should be done by a \
computer such that human beings can rip the benefits. 27.12.2010-21:46 < \
Kubuntiac> Does anyone ever look at the Krita brainstorms? 27.12.2010-21:46 \
< dmitryK> Kubuntiac: erm... =) 27.12.2010-21:46 < boud> Kubuntiac: well...
27.12.2010-21:47 < Pentalis> Kubuntiac: where, when?
27.12.2010-21:47 < boud> but we're moving away from the topic a bit
27.12.2010-21:47 < CyrilleB> :)
27.12.2010-21:47 < Pentalis> Yeah, it was a bit of an idea to keep full \
newbies motivated and finding what they need faster, instead of having to \
ask. 27.12.2010-21:47 < Kubuntiac> I'm good at that (along with billstei :)
27.12.2010-21:47 < slangkamp> I guess a "Make a photoshop clone" would get \
10000 votes ;) 27.12.2010-21:47 < Pentalis> I can bring this discussion to \
the mailing list ---->   moving topic back to where it was. \
27.12.2010-21:48 < boud> so, we've got two or three things: \
27.12.2010-21:48 < boud> * cool projects page (kubuntiac + boud) \
27.12.2010-21:48 < boud> * advertise brainstorm (pentalis + boud) \
27.12.2010-21:49 < boud> * really make clear to people we mentor that we \
expect everyone to be around after the project ends 27.12.2010-21:49 < \
boud> anything else? 27.12.2010-21:49 < Kubuntiac> You mean a new \
brainstorm or brainstorm on forum.kde.org? 27.12.2010-21:49 < billstei> * \
clone boud (boud) 27.12.2010-21:49 < boud> yeah
27.12.2010-21:49 < boud> my scalability is a bit of a problem, I'm afraid
27.12.2010-21:50 < Kubuntiac> we'll see what a bunch of slovakian beer does \
to that :) 27.12.2010-21:50 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-21:51 < boud> As a last point for this meeting, I'm really \
interested if anyone here has something like "I really wanna do X in 2011" \
or "I really wanna see X in 2011" 27.12.2010-21:52 < Kubuntiac> Other than \
World Domination™... 27.12.2010-21:52 < matusT> i am doing and i wana \
spread OpenCL in krita 27.12.2010-21:52 < Kubuntiac> I'd like to get more \
video of Krita out on the intertubes 27.12.2010-21:52 < billstei> i want to \
see the Motherland 27.12.2010-21:52 < LukasT> I want to stay on the brush \
engines topic in Krita and doing crazy stuff with that 27.12.2010-21:53 < \
Kubuntiac> and get news out into the artist community as well as the FOSS \
communitiy 27.12.2010-21:53 < LukasT> and of course I want to work as \
parttime developer for Krita in year 2011 27.12.2010-21:53 < CyrilleB> I \
want to do too many things :) 27.12.2010-21:53 < boud> CyrilleB: :-)
27.12.2010-21:54 < boud> right now, what I really want is to fix the \
resizing dockers, but I know that that's a quixotic quest.  \
27.12.2010-21:54 < boud> and fix the psd support... But I need long train \
journeys for that. 27.12.2010-21:54 < Kubuntiac> I also have some tentative \
ideas about a more community focused krita.org. Been playing around with \
Elgg (FOSS social network). It's nice! 27.12.2010-21:55 < boud> Kubuntiac: \
bring it on! 27.12.2010-21:55 < slangkamp> most of the things I wanted to \
implement for the next version are almost done ;) 27.12.2010-21:55 < \
Kubuntiac> :) 27.12.2010-21:55 < Kubuntiac> slangkamp: Someone's been \
turning up the awesome :) 27.12.2010-21:56 < boud> and there's still the \
integrated preset editor -- there are a number of things david revoy and \
peter sikking hinted about that are still to do. 27.12.2010-21:56 < \
billstei> sikking knows who we are? 27.12.2010-21:56 < boud> billstei: yes, \
he was with us last sprint 27.12.2010-21:57 < billstei> does he say nice \
things or does he make us feel bad? 27.12.2010-21:57 < boud> he helped us \
formulate the mission statement, among other things 27.12.2010-21:57 < \
boud> let's say that he makes us think :-) 27.12.2010-21:58 < dmitryK> btw, \
about the things, that'll help newbies to work more prolific -- a good UML \
(at least) for our code :( 27.12.2010-21:58 < boud> no gci student picked \
up on that... 27.12.2010-21:59 < billstei> code comments are evil  No UML!
27.12.2010-22:00 < dmitryK> boud: when i were 14 i didn't know anything \
about UML (though i did some coding in VB and c++)  =) 27.12.2010-22:00 < \
Pentalis> I'm guilty of that, I never put up the finished draft for that in \
GCI.  But I couldn't have tutored that and the brush campaign at the same \
time so I don't regret it much. 27.12.2010-22:00 < boud> dmitryK: when I \
was 14, UML didn't exist yet! 27.12.2010-22:00 < dmitryK> billstei: "code \
comments are evil" -- yes, but UML != "code comments" 27.12.2010-22:00 < \
matusT> cannot be UML just generated from code? 27.12.2010-22:00  * LukasT \
have to go 27.12.2010-22:01  * LukasT thanks for a nice time 
27.12.2010-22:01 -!- heroid [~heroid@178.175.69.76] has quit [Ping timeout: \
240 seconds] 27.12.2010-22:01 < Pentalis> exactly at 22:00  be well LukasT
27.12.2010-22:01 < Kubuntiac> Later LukasT!
27.12.2010-22:01 < boud> matusT: it can -- but then it won't be too clear
27.12.2010-22:01 < boud> by LukasT 
27.12.2010-22:01 < slangkamp> bye LukasT
27.12.2010-22:01 < boud> bye, I mean
27.12.2010-22:01 < dmitryK> LukasT: see you!
27.12.2010-22:01 < sgrosso> bye Lukas
27.12.2010-22:01 < boud> matusT: umbrello can help out at the beginning, \
but onl for class diagrams, while it's the interaction diagrams that are \
most important 27.12.2010-22:02 < matusT> boud: and what can do interaction \
diagrams? 27.12.2010-22:02 < dmitryK> boud, matusT: and UML should describe \
only main traits of the systems, i guess 27.12.2010-22:03 < dmitryK> \
matusT: how the classes iteract with each other 27.12.2010-22:03 < \
Pentalis> Oh, forgot to say what I planned for 2011... Using Krita to make \
heaps of art, that's pretty much my second biggest priority for the year in \
general. 27.12.2010-22:03 -!- LukasT \
[~LukasT@bband-dyn163.95-103-208.t-com.sk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] \
27.12.2010-22:04 < Kubuntiac> Pentalis: Nice! Yeah, I want to do more art \
this year, too :) 27.12.2010-22:04 < dmitryK> boud: i guess, for the \
beginning, we just need to show classes, associations and aggregations \
27.12.2010-22:04 < matusT> dmitryK: i was not asking what is \
27.12.2010-22:04 < matusT> dmitryK: boud sayd umbrello can help only with \
class diagrams, so what other software can make/craete interaction \
diagrams? 27.12.2010-22:04 < CyrilleB> umbrello has support for interaction \
diagrams 27.12.2010-22:05 < slangkamp> boud: did you take notes so far?
27.12.2010-22:05 < dmitryK> matusT: ah, the developer, that is who can do \
that, i guess ;) 27.12.2010-22:05 < dmitryK> CyrilleB: autogeneration?
27.12.2010-22:05 < boud> slangkamp: yes, a few
27.12.2010-22:06 < boud> slangkamp: I'll fix the notes up tomorrow when I'm \
in the hospital, waiting for irina to be taken care of. 27.12.2010-22:06 < \
CyrilleB> dmitryK: no 27.12.2010-22:06 < dmitryK> matusT, CyrilleB: btw, \
all the previous times i tried to auto-generate UML form Krita's code -- it \
hung up ;P 27.12.2010-22:06 < CyrilleB> but then, there is no FOSS \
application that support generation 27.12.2010-22:07 < Kubuntiac> :'(
27.12.2010-22:07 < dmitryK> CyrilleB: i guess this is due to some \
KRITA_EXPORT stuff... just a guess.. 27.12.2010-22:07 < Kubuntiac> Hey, do \
we have a release date for 2.3? 27.12.2010-22:08 < CyrilleB> wednesday
27.12.2010-22:08 < Kubuntiac> eep! I better get moving with my video \
then... 27.12.2010-22:08 < boud> tomorrow night... I'll finish the 2.3 \
koffice changelog. Wednesday morning I will have to get irina from the \
hospital, but I still might be able to do a krita.org release article. \
27.12.2010-22:08 < Kubuntiac> If anyone can think of any new features of \
v2.3 I should cover, I'd love to hear them 27.12.2010-22:09 < dmitryK> \
Kubuntiac: canvas rotation? =) 27.12.2010-22:09 < boud> brushes, speed, \
canvas rotation, speed, masks, speed, presets, color docker, speed, \
transform tool 27.12.2010-22:09 < slangkamp> and staaaaaabbbbbiliityyyyy
27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> we really need to release more often, since \
there's too much in 2.3 to take in 27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> slangkamp: \
right you are!  27.12.2010-22:10  * Kubuntiac tries to figure out how to \
record Krita *not* crashing.... 27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> oh-oh
27.12.2010-22:10 < dmitryK> ok, i have to go now, good night!
27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> I only know of one crash I reproduce, and that's \
an assert, so hopefully not a crash in release mode 27.12.2010-22:10 < \
Kubuntiac> later dmitryK! 27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> dmitryK: bye!
27.12.2010-22:10 -!- dmitryK [~dmitryK@94.232.66.212] has quit [Remote host \
closed the connection] 27.12.2010-22:11 < Kubuntiac> boud: By that, I \
didn't mean Krita is rashing, I mean that recording a video of nothing \
happening is, well, boring :) 27.12.2010-22:11 < Kubuntiac> rashing == \
crashing 27.12.2010-22:12 < slangkamp> we haven't decided what to sponsor \
next year yet 27.12.2010-22:13 < boud> slangkamp: that's true
27.12.2010-22:13 < Pentalis> I have a wall of text written with respect to \
the mixing engine in case the topic needs to be discussed. 27.12.2010-22:13 \
< boud> slangkamp: except that we have decided not to sponsor: the manual \
and the windows installer 27.12.2010-22:13 < Kubuntiac> boud: If it helps \
for your changelog: http://community.kde.org/Krita/V2.3UserFacingFeatures \
27.12.2010-22:13 < boud> Kubuntiac: sure, thanks! 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> \
slangkamp: there are two or three things sgrosso has offered sponsorship \
for: 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> * fixing the crop tool
27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> * mix brush
27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> * fixing some remaining nasty bugs
27.12.2010-22:14  * Kubuntiac bows before sgrosso
27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> we've got a clear end date for that, as well as a \
clear end-of-sponsorship -- and that's great 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> we \
owe sgrosso a lot! 27.12.2010-22:14 < sgrosso> yes, I would like to sponsor \
them :-) 27.12.2010-22:15 < boud> after that, we really need to engage the \
community again 27.12.2010-22:15 < CyrilleB> I thought we had decided to \
sponsor for blender's need 27.12.2010-22:15 < boud> that's a plan -- but I \
need to discuss that with Ton first. It's on my todo. 27.12.2010-22:16 < \
boud> sgrosso: :-) 27.12.2010-22:17 < CyrilleB> meaning we can't really \
take a decision 27.12.2010-22:17 < boud> CyrilleB: right
27.12.2010-22:17 < slangkamp> ok
27.12.2010-22:18 -!- sinozzuke \
[~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: \
Connection reset by peer] 27.12.2010-22:18 -!- sinozzuke \
[~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #krita \
27.12.2010-22:19 < Kubuntiac> I think engaging the community comes down to \
publicity (so they know we exist) and ease (making it easy to install and \
use). Other than windows, packages are vital imho as most artists will \
*never* compile and the versions in most repo's are hideously old. In other \
words OBS FTW :) 27.12.2010-22:20  * Kubuntiac really should get back to \
investigating the obs 27.12.2010-22:21 < slangkamp> yeah many users use \
version that are really really old 27.12.2010-22:21 < billstei> so, how \
difficult would it be to break KDE dependency and be QT-only ? \
27.12.2010-22:22 < boud> about six months of work, I think. \
27.12.2010-22:22 < Pentalis> There's a chain of dependencies. Krita -> \
KOffice -> KDE -> Qt. 27.12.2010-22:22 < Kubuntiac> Krita in next Ubuntu is \
currently 2.2.91... and probably will still be when 2.4 comes out... :/ \
27.12.2010-22:22 < boud> and we'd separate ourselves from the KDE \
community, and that's a big price to pay as well. 27.12.2010-22:23 < \
Kubuntiac> aye 27.12.2010-22:23 < billstei> and then I wouldn't get to see \
the Motherland 27.12.2010-22:24 < billstei> wait, are we sprinting in \
Germany or the Lands of Nether? 27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> not sure yet
27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> I'm going approach:
27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> * troubalex about the essen linux hotel
27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> * ton about the blender institute
27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> * bcoppens about his university (in belgium)
27.12.2010-22:25 < Kubuntiac> Mmmmm... Belgium chocolate :)
27.12.2010-22:25 < boud> though either netherlands or germany are most \
likely, because we've got residents there who can handle the visum needs \
27.12.2010-22:25 -!- thorwil [~thorwil@p4FFB6A08.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit \
[Remote host closed the connection] 27.12.2010-22:25 < matusT> problems \
with kde-dependancy could be solved if someone work on that idea of merging \
kde and qt libraries... 27.12.2010-22:25 < boud> and, of course, nobody \
stops you to make a tour of europe in ten days after the sprint is over! \
27.12.2010-22:25 < boud> matusT: the libraries aren't even the biggest \
problem 27.12.2010-22:26 < boud> matusT: the kde libs are only a couple of \
megs -- the big issue is the various daemons that need to be running and be \
of the right version and all that 27.12.2010-22:26 < Kubuntiac> matusT: The \
politics needed for that to happen would be...amazingly unlikely imo \
27.12.2010-22:26 < Kubuntiac> not that I'm super informed 27.12.2010-22:27 \
< billstei> I only wondered because the WIndows installer would probably be \
easier for QT-only 27.12.2010-22:27 < boud> billstei: yes, it would be \
easier 27.12.2010-22:28 < boud> though we use so many other 3rd party \
libraries, that it's still not exactly easy :-) 27.12.2010-22:28 < \
billstei> ok right 27.12.2010-22:28 < boud> I need to go now as well -- see \
y'all 27.12.2010-22:29 < billstei> Linux will achieve Total World \
Domination in 2011 anyway 27.12.2010-22:29 < Kubuntiac> night boud!
27.12.2010-22:29 < Kubuntiac> billstei: This is the year... I can feel it! \
:) 27.12.2010-22:29 < matusT> billstei: i hope not
27.12.2010-22:30 < billstei> 2012 ?
27.12.2010-22:30 < Kubuntiac> It'll probably just be that Linux is running \
Google's servers when they pull it off... :/ 27.12.2010-22:30 < Kubuntiac> \
I for one welcome our new cloud-based overlords :) 27.12.2010-22:31 < \
slangkamp> night boud 27.12.2010-22:31 < sgrosso> good night boud :-)
27.12.2010-22:32 < Kubuntiac> k, I'm off too. bbl
27.12.2010-22:32 < slangkamp> night Kubuntiac
27.12.2010-22:34 < billstei> so if I attend the sprint what do I have do?
27.12.2010-22:34 < billstei> solve World Peace
27.12.2010-22:34 < matusT> what i need to do if i want attend sprint? :)
27.12.2010-22:36 < matusT> ok bye 
27.12.2010-22:37 -!- matusT \
[5f69e047@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.105.224.71] has quit [Quit: Page \
closed] 27.12.2010-22:38 -!- n-pigeon \
[~przemo@host166.kopernika.miedzyrzecz.com.pl] has joined #krita \
27.12.2010-22:39 < n-pigeon> hi evbd 27.12.2010-22:40 < slangkamp> Hi \
n-pigeon 27.12.2010-22:40 < slangkamp> billstei: no, just attend :)
27.12.2010-22:41 < billstei> don't i have to write code like a crazy-man?
27.12.2010-22:43 -!- heroid [~heroid@178.175.75.17] has joined #krita
27.12.2010-22:44  * billstei forces himself to go build Yet Another Windows \
Machine 27.12.2010-22:44 < verbalshadow> billstei: don't do it , it not \
worth it 27.12.2010-22:44 < verbalshadow> it is 
27.12.2010-22:45 < billstei> with Vista.  It's like twisting the knife
27.12.2010-22:46 -!- mpeg [~quassel@bru67-1-82-227-48-153.fbx.proxad.net] \
has joined #krita 27.12.2010-22:47 -!- plassy \
[~quassel@ip-2-201-163-79.web.vodafone.de] has quit [Remote host closed the \
connection] 27.12.2010-22:57 < sgrosso> I have to go as well, good night \
everyone :-) 27.12.2010-22:57 < Pentalis> Good night sgrosso!
27.12.2010-22:58 < n-pigeon> cya
27.12.2010-22:58 < sgrosso> Good night everyone :-)



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