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List:       kde-frameworks-devel
Subject:    Re: Review Request 126078: [OS X] modernising the KIdleTime plugin (WIP!)
From:       "Aleix Pol Gonzalez" <aleixpol () kde ! org>
Date:       2015-11-18 14:24:11
Message-ID: 20151118142411.14400.66218 () mimi ! kde ! org
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> On Nov. 18, 2015, 8:22 a.m., Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> > src/plugins/osx/macpoller.cpp, lines 222-227
> > <https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/126078/diff/6/?file=417217#file417217line222>
> > 
> > seriously? You care about idle timeouts below 5 msec? This is a framework to tell \
> > the application whether the user doesn't use input devices. I don't know how fast \
> > you type, but I'm relatively certain that it takes more than 5 msec to move my \
> > finger from one key to another. What exactly is that you want to detect here? An \
> > event after each key press, maybe even between a key press and a key release? \
> > Because that's probably already more about 5 msec.
> 
> René J.V. Bertin wrote:
> The timer is used only for the detection of idle timeouts (so *absence* of user \
> input), and the precision with which it fires determines the accuracy with which \
> those events can be timed. This is currently inaccessible anyway, but I don't \
> believe in doing things half-bakedly. One might question whether it makes sense to \
> allow the framework to work at high precision (I more or less agree that remains to \
> be seen). But I don't think it makes sense to do that and then leave the QTimer in \
> a mode where the requested precision cannot be met. 
> Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> To get this quite clear: you care about a precision of below 5 msec, this is a \
> third of the time it takes at least till the next frame is rendered. If you are \
> lucky you get the result of a key press or mouse move represented on screen after \
> 16 msec, more likely it's more. And you care about a wrong timer precision below 5 \
> msec. Sorry that's ridiculous. Please don't include such non-sense code. You make \
> that code more difficult to all other developers to maintain. This code has cost if \
> it's included.

It's not a matter of doing things "right" or "wrong". It's a matter of priorities.

KIdleTime is a framework for figuring out whether the system is idle. I don't \
consider 5ms not using a system as it's being idling.


- Aleix


-----------------------------------------------------------
This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/126078/#review88509
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On Nov. 17, 2015, 10:13 p.m., René J.V. Bertin wrote:
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
> https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/126078/
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> (Updated Nov. 17, 2015, 10:13 p.m.)
> 
> 
> Review request for KDE Software on Mac OS X, KDE Frameworks and Dario Freddi.
> 
> 
> Repository: kidletime
> 
> 
> Description
> -------
> 
> I noticed that the KIdleTime example doesn't work properly on OS X, and that the \
> plugin for OS X still uses the deprecated Carbon-based algorithm that I already \
> patched for KDE4. 
> This patch is a work-in-progress (hence the qDebugs) update to use IOKit, \
> IORegistry and CoreServices to do idle-time calculation as it should be done, and \
> allow simulated user activity through a "less deprecated" function. 
> 
> Diffs
> -----
> 
> src/plugins/osx/CMakeLists.txt e1b50b8 
> src/plugins/osx/macpoller.h ef51ea5 
> src/plugins/osx/macpoller.cpp ad9c10f 
> src/plugins/osx/macpoller_helper.mm PRE-CREATION 
> 
> Diff: https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/126078/diff/
> 
> 
> Testing
> -------
> 
> On OS X 10.9 with Qt 5.5.1 and frameworks 5.16.0 .
> 
> The example now works: when I set a QTimer with interval==0, the expected wait for \
> user input (`resumingFromIdle` signal) works. However, I am getting a \
> `stopCatchingIdleEvents` signal which means the application waits forever, without \
> ever getting to compare idle time to the list of timeouts. I haven't been able to \
> figure out where that signal comes from, nor why this doesn't happen on Linux. 
> Surely I'm missing something, but what?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> René J.V. Bertin
> 
> 


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      This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
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<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;">  <p style="margin-top: 0;">On November 18th, 2015, 8:22 a.m. CET, <b>Martin \
Gräßlin</b> wrote:</p>  <blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid \
#d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">  


<table width="100%" border="0" bgcolor="white" style="border: 1px solid #C0C0C0; \
border-collapse: collapse; margin: 2px padding: 2px;">  <thead>
  <tr>
   <th colspan="4" bgcolor="#F0F0F0" style="border-bottom: 1px solid #C0C0C0; \
font-size: 9pt; padding: 4px 8px; text-align: left;">  <a \
href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/126078/diff/6/?file=417217#file417217line222" \
style="color: black; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: \
underline;">src/plugins/osx/macpoller.cpp</a>  <span style="font-weight: normal;">

     (Diff revision 6)

    </span>
   </th>
  </tr>
 </thead>



 
 

 <tbody>

  <tr>
    <th bgcolor="#b1ebb0" style="border-right: 1px solid #C0C0C0;" \
align="right"><font size="2"></font></th>  <td bgcolor="#c5ffc4" width="50%"><pre \
style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 140%; margin: 0; "></pre></td>  <th \
bgcolor="#b1ebb0" style="border-left: 1px solid #C0C0C0; border-right: 1px solid \
#C0C0C0;" align="right"><font size="2">144</font></th>  <td bgcolor="#c5ffc4" \
width="50%"><pre style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 140%; margin: 0; ">        <span \
class="k">if</span> <span class="p">(</span><span class="n">m_pollResolution</span> \
<span class="o">&lt;</span> <span class="mi">5</span><span class="p">)</span> <span \
class="p">{</span></pre></td>  </tr>

  <tr>
    <th bgcolor="#b1ebb0" style="border-right: 1px solid #C0C0C0;" \
align="right"><font size="2"></font></th>  <td bgcolor="#c5ffc4" width="50%"><pre \
style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 140%; margin: 0; "></pre></td>  <th \
bgcolor="#b1ebb0" style="border-left: 1px solid #C0C0C0; border-right: 1px solid \
#C0C0C0;" align="right"><font size="2">145</font></th>  <td bgcolor="#c5ffc4" \
width="50%"><pre style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 140%; margin: 0; ">            \
<span class="n">m_idleTimer</span><span class="o">-&gt;</span><span \
class="n">setTimerType</span><span class="p">(</span><span class="n">Qt</span><span \
class="o">::</span><span class="n">PreciseTimer</span><span \
class="p">);</span></pre></td>  </tr>

  <tr>
    <th bgcolor="#b1ebb0" style="border-right: 1px solid #C0C0C0;" \
align="right"><font size="2"></font></th>  <td bgcolor="#c5ffc4" width="50%"><pre \
style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 140%; margin: 0; "></pre></td>  <th \
bgcolor="#b1ebb0" style="border-left: 1px solid #C0C0C0; border-right: 1px solid \
#C0C0C0;" align="right"><font size="2">146</font></th>  <td bgcolor="#c5ffc4" \
width="50%"><pre style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 140%; margin: 0; ">        <span \
class="p">}</span></pre></td>  </tr>

  <tr>
    <th bgcolor="#b1ebb0" style="border-right: 1px solid #C0C0C0;" \
align="right"><font size="2"></font></th>  <td bgcolor="#c5ffc4" width="50%"><pre \
style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 140%; margin: 0; "></pre></td>  <th \
bgcolor="#b1ebb0" style="border-left: 1px solid #C0C0C0; border-right: 1px solid \
#C0C0C0;" align="right"><font size="2">147</font></th>  <td bgcolor="#c5ffc4" \
width="50%"><pre style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 140%; margin: 0; ">        <span \
class="k">else</span> <span class="p">{</span></pre></td>  </tr>

  <tr>
    <th bgcolor="#b1ebb0" style="border-right: 1px solid #C0C0C0;" \
align="right"><font size="2"></font></th>  <td bgcolor="#c5ffc4" width="50%"><pre \
style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 140%; margin: 0; "></pre></td>  <th \
bgcolor="#b1ebb0" style="border-left: 1px solid #C0C0C0; border-right: 1px solid \
#C0C0C0;" align="right"><font size="2">148</font></th>  <td bgcolor="#c5ffc4" \
width="50%"><pre style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 140%; margin: 0; ">            \
<span class="n">m_idleTimer</span><span class="o">-&gt;</span><span \
class="n">setTimerType</span><span class="p">(</span><span class="n">Qt</span><span \
class="o">::</span><span class="n">CoarseTimer</span><span \
class="p">);</span></pre></td>  </tr>

  <tr>
    <th bgcolor="#b1ebb0" style="border-right: 1px solid #C0C0C0;" \
align="right"><font size="2"></font></th>  <td bgcolor="#c5ffc4" width="50%"><pre \
style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 140%; margin: 0; "></pre></td>  <th \
bgcolor="#b1ebb0" style="border-left: 1px solid #C0C0C0; border-right: 1px solid \
#C0C0C0;" align="right"><font size="2">149</font></th>  <td bgcolor="#c5ffc4" \
width="50%"><pre style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 140%; margin: 0; ">        <span \
class="p">}</span></pre></td>  </tr>

 </tbody>

</table>

  <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">seriously? You care about idle timeouts below 5 msec? This is a framework \
to tell the application whether the user doesn't use input devices. I don't know how \
fast you type, but I'm relatively certain that it takes more than 5 msec to move my \
finger from one key to another. What exactly is that you want to detect here? An \
event after each key press, maybe even between a key press and a key release? Because \
that's probably already more about 5 msec.</p></pre>  </blockquote>



 <p>On November 18th, 2015, 1:48 p.m. CET, <b>René J.V. Bertin</b> wrote:</p>
 <blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;">  <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">The \
timer is used only for the detection of idle timeouts (so <em style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
normal;">absence</em> of user input), and the precision with which it fires \
determines the accuracy with which those events can be timed. This is currently \
inaccessible anyway, but I don't believe in doing things half-bakedly. One might \
question whether it makes sense to allow the framework to work at high precision (I \
more or less agree that remains to be seen). But I don't think it makes sense to do \
that and then leave the QTimer in a mode where the requested precision cannot be \
met.</p></pre>  </blockquote>





 <p>On November 18th, 2015, 3 p.m. CET, <b>Martin Gräßlin</b> wrote:</p>
 <blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;">  <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">To \
get this quite clear: you care about a precision of below 5 msec, this is a third of \
the time it takes at least till the next frame is rendered. If you are lucky you get \
the result of a key press or mouse move represented on screen after 16 msec, more \
likely it's more. And you care about a wrong timer precision below 5 msec. Sorry \
that's ridiculous. Please don't include such non-sense code. You make that code more \
difficult to all other developers to maintain. This code has cost if it's \
included.</p></pre>  </blockquote>







</blockquote>
<pre style="margin-left: 1em; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; \
white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p \
style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">It's not a matter of doing things "right" or "wrong". It's a matter of \
priorities.</p> <p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">KIdleTime is a framework for figuring out whether the \
system is idle. I don't consider 5ms not using a system as it's being \
idling.</p></pre> <br />




<p>- Aleix</p>


<br />
<p>On November 17th, 2015, 10:13 p.m. CET, René J.V. Bertin wrote:</p>








<table bgcolor="#fefadf" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="12" style="border: \
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  <td>

<div>Review request for KDE Software on Mac OS X, KDE Frameworks and Dario \
Freddi.</div> <div>By René J.V. Bertin.</div>


<p style="color: grey;"><i>Updated Nov. 17, 2015, 10:13 p.m.</i></p>









<div style="margin-top: 1.5em;">
 <b style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt;">Repository: </b>
kidletime
</div>


<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Description </h1>
 <table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" \
style="border: 1px solid #b8b5a0">  <tr>
  <td>
   <pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">I noticed that the KIdleTime example doesn't work \
properly on OS X, and that the plugin for OS X still uses the deprecated Carbon-based \
algorithm that I already patched for KDE4.</p> <p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: \
inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">This patch is a \
work-in-progress (hence the qDebugs) update to use IOKit, IORegistry and CoreServices \
to do idle-time calculation as it should be done, and allow simulated user activity \
through a "less deprecated" function.</p></pre>  </td>
 </tr>
</table>


<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Testing </h1>
<table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" style="border: \
1px solid #b8b5a0">  <tr>
  <td>
   <pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">On OS X 10.9 with Qt 5.5.1 and frameworks 5.16.0 .</p> \
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">The example now works: when I set a QTimer with \
interval==0, the expected wait for user input (<code style="text-rendering: \
inherit;color: #4444cc;padding: 0;white-space: normal;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;">resumingFromIdle</code> signal) works. However, I am getting a <code \
style="text-rendering: inherit;color: #4444cc;padding: 0;white-space: normal;margin: \
0;line-height: inherit;">stopCatchingIdleEvents</code> signal which means the \
application waits forever, without ever getting to compare idle time to the list of \
timeouts. I haven't been able to figure out where that signal comes from, nor why \
this doesn't happen on Linux.</p> <p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: \
inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Surely I'm missing \
something, but what?</p></pre>  </td>
 </tr>
</table>


<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Diffs</b> </h1>
<ul style="margin-left: 3em; padding-left: 0;">

 <li>src/plugins/osx/CMakeLists.txt <span style="color: grey">(e1b50b8)</span></li>

 <li>src/plugins/osx/macpoller.h <span style="color: grey">(ef51ea5)</span></li>

 <li>src/plugins/osx/macpoller.cpp <span style="color: grey">(ad9c10f)</span></li>

 <li>src/plugins/osx/macpoller_helper.mm <span style="color: \
grey">(PRE-CREATION)</span></li>

</ul>

<p><a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/126078/diff/" style="margin-left: \
3em;">View Diff</a></p>






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