[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
List: kde-edu-devel
Subject: Re: Basic words in a new language
From: Inge Wallin <inge () lysator ! liu ! se>
Date: 2013-08-11 17:27:16
Message-ID: 6928869.GsnMoBm9xg () linux-da92 ! site
[Download RAW message or body]
[Attachment #2 (multipart/alternative)]
On Friday, August 09, 2013 22:38:51 Andreas Cord-Landwehr wrote:
> Hi Inge, I think that is a very good idea to start with a blueprint course
> that we can use to provide basic vocabulary courses for other languages.
> The current list really well fits to what I have in mind when thinking
> about the meaning of "basic course".
Ok, thanks. One thing that I don't remember if I emphasized in my first mail
is that this list was supposed to represent a useful subset for somebody who
wanted to study a language seriously and continue learning more after these
words are mastered.
I guess something that is also useful would be to put together a similar list
of words and phrases that you could use to prepare for a vacation trip
somewhere. LIke numbers, some "touristy" words like hotel, beach, bar,
restaurant, toilet, etc.
Something else that I didn't emphasize is that I tried to keep each lesson
between 10-15 words so that they could be reasonably learned in one session.
I have an app on my phone with a *lot* of words categorized slightly like this
one but those lessons are more like 30-40 words per package and it is very
difficult to remember the words the first times around.
> Some comments to the categories:
> * a category for relative pronouns ("this, that, those...) is missing
Agreed
> * the current category "Pronouns" should better be called "Personal
> Pronouns"
Sure. It could be a sub category to "Pronouns"
> * In general there are very few adjectives and verbs, maybe add a
> categories for describing persons, describing a house, or describing
> activities (I was already thinking about verbs/adjectives needed in specific
> situations, but I think that goes beyond the scope of a "basic course") *
> for the Locations category, I cannot follow why you selected the current
> sub-categories :) IMO it would make more sense to use e.g. "buildings",
> "points of interests (tourism)", and add "Directions" (which is currently
> in category "others")
Yes, I noticed that near the end too but then it was too late to add them
without restructuring it totally. So I thought I'd just send it off to get
feedback. Adverbs are also missing, btw.
Regarding the word selection, as I said it's more designed to be a "starting
set" as it were, rather than a self-contained subset of a language that you
can use as a sort of mini-language.
Regarding categories, I'm very open to restructuring that. I have no
attachment to the current selection.
What I *am* attached to, though is the relatively fine-grained tree. So I
wouldn't want to increase the size of the lessons just because there are more
things that would fit. So, for example, rather than add more colors to the
"Colors" lesson, I would create a "Colors 2" lesson.
Another thing that I haven't thought so much about is if 500 basic words is a
good size. Maybe it should be just 400? Or perhaps 750? 500 felt like a
nice round number when I started out...
> For the second step, I think it also could be an interesting approach to
> define a set of scenarios and collect word lists for the vocabulary required
> in those situations. (at least my current work book for my French course is
> doing it that way ;) And as Bčrto pointed out, there are already some good
> Parley courses that could be reused/be good starting points for that.
I actually downloaded a few but most of the serious ones were massive lists of
words without much structure. What I'm after is something that you can use to
learn a set or words when you have some spare time, like on the bus or during
a break. That's how I use my app on my phone right now.
And rather than have one file with 4000 words, I'd prefer 8 with 500 each.
Thanks for the feedback. Would you care to suggest an improved structure?
-Inge
> Greetings,
> Andreas
[Attachment #5 (unknown)]
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN" \
"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/strict.dtd"> <html><head><meta name="qrichtext" \
content="1" /><style type="text/css"> p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }
</style></head><body style=" font-family:'Sans Serif'; font-size:11pt; \
font-weight:400; font-style:normal;"> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">On Friday, August 09, 2013 22:38:51 Andreas Cord-Landwehr \
wrote:</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> Hi \
Inge, I think that is a very good idea to start with a blueprint course</p> <p \
style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> that we can use to \
provide basic vocabulary courses for other languages.</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> The current list really well fits to what I \
have in mind when thinking</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> about the meaning of "basic course".</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">Ok, thanks. One thing that I \
don't remember if I emphasized in my first mail is that this list was supposed to \
represent a useful subset for somebody who wanted to study a language seriously and \
continue learning more after these words are mastered.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">I guess something that is \
also useful would be to put together a similar list of words and phrases that you \
could use to prepare for a vacation trip somewhere. LIke numbers, some \
"touristy" words like hotel, beach, bar, restaurant, toilet, etc.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">Something else that I didn't \
emphasize is that I tried to keep each lesson between 10-15 words so that they could \
be reasonably learned in one session. I have an app on my phone with a *lot* of \
words categorized slightly like this one but those lessons are more like 30-40 words \
per package and it is very difficult to remember the words the first times \
around.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> \
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> Some comments to the \
categories:</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> * a \
category for relative pronouns ("this, that, those...) is missing</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">Agreed</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> * the current category \
"Pronouns" should better be called "Personal</p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> Pronouns"</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">Sure. It could be a sub \
category to "Pronouns"</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> * In general there are very few adjectives \
and verbs, maybe add a</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> categories for describing persons, describing a house, or \
describing</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> \
activities (I was already thinking about verbs/adjectives needed in specific</p> <p \
style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> situations, but I think \
that goes beyond the scope of a "basic course") *</p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> for the Locations \
category, I cannot follow why you selected the current</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> sub-categories :) IMO it would make more \
sense to use e.g. "buildings",</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> "points of interests (tourism)", \
and add "Directions" (which is currently</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> in category "others")</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">Yes, I noticed that near the \
end too but then it was too late to add them without restructuring it totally. So I \
thought I'd just send it off to get feedback. Adverbs are also missing, btw.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">Regarding the word selection, \
as I said it's more designed to be a "starting set" as it were, rather than \
a self-contained subset of a language that you can use as a sort of mini-language. \
</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> \
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">Regarding categories, I'm \
very open to restructuring that. I have no attachment to the current selection. \
</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> \
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">What I *am* attached to, \
though is the relatively fine-grained tree. So I wouldn't want to increase the size \
of the lessons just because there are more things that would fit. So, for example, \
rather than add more colors to the "Colors" lesson, I would create a \
"Colors 2" lesson.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">Another thing that I haven't thought so much about is if 500 basic \
words is a good size. Maybe it should be just 400? Or perhaps 750? 500 felt like a \
nice round number when I started out...</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> For the second step, I think it also could \
be an interesting approach to</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> define a set of scenarios and collect word lists for the \
vocabulary required</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> in those situations. (at least my current work book for my \
French course is</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> doing \
it that way ;) And as Bčrto pointed out, there are already some good</p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> Parley courses that \
could be reused/be good starting points for that.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">I actually downloaded a few \
but most of the serious ones were massive lists of words without much structure. \
What I'm after is something that you can use to learn a set or words when you have \
some spare time, like on the bus or during a break. That's how I use my app on my \
phone right now.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">And rather than have one file with 4000 words, I'd prefer 8 with \
500 each.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> \
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">Thanks for the feedback. \
Would you care to suggest an improved structure?</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;"> -Inge</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> Greetings,</p> <p \
style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> \
Andreas</p></body></html>
_______________________________________________
kde-edu mailing list
kde-edu@mail.kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu
[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
Configure |
About |
News |
Add a list |
Sponsored by KoreLogic