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List:       kde-edu-devel
Subject:    Re: [kde-edu-devel] status of application discussion
From:       Dominique Devriese <dominique.devriese () student ! kuleuven ! ac ! be>
Date:       2002-09-18 6:48:11
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Klas Kalass writes:

> Hi, Since I started the big discussion about the status of
> applications there has already been a lot of actions, but I would
> like to not let this discussion die yet. Could please also people
> not involved with the corresponding apps voice their opinions (I am
> sure we have a lot more opinionated people here - Scott?)?

Hi, I didn't really participate in the discussion as there were lots
of long mails I didn't get the time to read fully..
Anyway, I'll try to voice my opinion now...
Note that I try to remain neutral here, and to only say what I
think... 

> Please remember that we already missed the packaging date for Beta
> 2, but lets at least get this done prior to RC1.  I consider all
> apps not mentioned here to be in KDE 3.1.

> kgeo: ------
>   Does everybody want to keep in because it was in KDE 3.0 (although
>   it
> appears to be unmaintained)?

I think it's not a good idea to remove an app until there's a good
reason to do so.  KGeo is rather stable and some people use it..

> kpercentage: ----------------
>  I will send another mail, dedicated to it soon.

> kverbos: ----------
>   Arnold: I take it you would continue to maintain it in the Extra
>   Gear?  As I cannot remember anyone speaking up for it to stay in
>   kdeedu and I
> already thought that the consensus of the last thread on kverbos was
> to move it to KEG, will you ask Waldo to move it to the Extra Gear? 
> And before I forget: Please subscribe to the ML and welcome to the
> Extra Gear :-) !  If you do not intend to continue maintaining that
> app then please tell us (this is just the default disclaimer to make
> sure we get no unmaintained apps in the Extra Gear, just in case).


KPercentage and KVerbos are small applications.  It was said here
before, but I always hear from people when they talk about KDE-Edu
that it looks more like a collection of "I tried to learn
KDE-coding"-apps than a well thought out collection of quality apps.
Two factors are important here, imho:

1 the duplication of functionality: If we have in the same package
different applications like KVerbos, KVocTrain, and perhaps Kiten,
that all serve the same purpose, that looks a bit poor to users.  It
makes it appear as though KDE-Edu is more of a place where people add
their applications to, than a real, integrated project.  If anything,
you must understand this doesn't give a professional impression.

2 the fact that some applications are very specialised.  Examples I
would quote here are KPercentage, KBruch, KVerbos etc.  These are only
useful for a rather small part of the public, and if we will make an
individual application for every possible learning subject, it will
become somewhat ridiculous ( imagine things like KSquare, KSquareRoot,
KLogarithm, KPower, KAddition, KDTError ( d-t errors are common
spelling mistakes in Dutch ) etc. ).  Besides that, it would also make
it necessary for us to maintain each application individually...

In brief, I think we have some small apps that should be integrated
into one.  The obvious advantages are:
1 consistency
2 having to maintain the common functionality only once
3 easier to add small modules instead of small applications

This is where I think KMath comes in.  KMath should imho become
something like KExercise.  It would have a nice screen where the user
can select what subject he wants to be examined about, and then start
it.  The program then shows the exercise part in question...

The problem of course is that in merging the applications a bit of the
individuality of an application is lost, and i understand that some
people don't like to see this happen, but couldn't the people in
question motivate themselves to work on a great integrated app, in
which individual parts add up to the combination ?  I think there's a
lot of possibilities there, e.g. working on sets of exercise parts for
e.g. children learning dutch spelling or spanish grammar etc.  It
would be impossible to give these each a separate application, but as
parts, it is easier to do..  Can't some of the code of the current
applications that would be integrated in KExercise be reused, by the
way ?  KPercentage e.g. looks rather nice, maybe it could become the
basis for a common look for the exercises and the KExercise program ? 

The same holds for the language apps, or maybe they can be integrated
in what is now called KMath as well ?

> khangman & klettres: -------------------------
>  Did we have those in KDE3.0?

By the way, isn't KHangman more of a game than an educational
application ?

> Do we have a list of all apps that were released with KDE 3.0?

Here, another note: Isn't it a bit too late to be throwing out
applications ?  We are in feature freeze, iirc, and maybe we had
better wait until KDE 3.2 to make all these radical changes ?

> And one more general thing: Did anyone start with something like a
> KDE-Edu styleguide?  I think it would be good to have something like
> kdeedu/internal/Styleguide where everybody adds his/her ideas on
> what such a guide should contain and then notify the list (optimum:
> with the corresponding webcvs link for the lazy ones among us;) and
> then everybody would work on this single document instead of long
> email discussions. And once everybody agrees on the content we make
> a HTML document out of it, format it nicely and maybe even add
> pictures :-)

To content Neil: how about we only mention the differences to what the
KDE Style Guide says.  The latter is one very large document, and
almost all of it applys to educational apps too.  The areas that are
specific to KDE-Edu are rather limited: font sizes, splash screens
etc.
Anyway, these are just my 2 ¢, what do you think ?
Cheers
Dominique

-- 
You have a deep appreciation of the arts and music.
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