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List:       kde-edu-devel
Subject:    Re: [kde-edu-devel] KVerbos and the Spanish buttons
From:       Scott Wheeler <wheeler () kde ! org>
Date:       2002-06-17 16:51:51
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On Monday 17 June 2002 06:40 am, Arnold Kraschinki wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I heared that some people complained about the Spanish buttons in that 
> program. As far as I understood this persons think that this doesn't fit to 
> the KDE GUI rules.
> 
> At first I think it is a good feature of KDE that the user can change the 
> language and then all the menus and buttons are changing too. That's the 
> reason why I can understand them in some parts. And the buttons in Spanish 
> might be a problem if during an event like linux tag the program is 
presented 
> to someone who cannot speak and doesn't learn the language.

Well, again, here I go on a style rant.  As I've mentioned before, one of the 
most important things in KDE is consistency.  As Waldo pointed out after my 
last style rant, our users appreciate it too.  What that means in a case like 
this is that one application should not choose what it thinks is best 
independent of the rest of KDE.  As an example, we have a lot of applications 
geared towards language study, and all of the others use the default, i18n'd 
strings.  For one application to break that consistency, even if it does help 
with the goals of the application, does not fit.

If it was decided that this was helpful *all* of the language study 
applications should do the same thing.  I however think that is a bad idea, 
but that's a separate topic.

This is a tough point, but sometimes, an application in KDE CVS has to do 
something which may not be the most helpful for that application, but by way 
of being part of KDE it *must* stay consistent with the rest of KDE -- at 
least by default.

> But KVerbos isn't a program like an editor or a game or another common tool. 
> It's purpose it to learn Spanish. And the persons who do so know what the 
> words on the buttons mean or they have a dictionary to look them up. Someone 
> who doesn't want to learn the meaning of these words doesn't want to learn 
> Spanish either.


> I think it is good to have buttons in Spanish because it uses the language 
> the learner wants to learn. Although it's a very small use. So the buttons 
in 
> Spanish are connected to the intention of the program to practice the 
> language. It's an educational program.

Actually, I agree with you here, and that is in fact why I often use the 
German or Spanish language on my KDE desktop, but again, that is something 
that the user should choose, not the application developer.

> Some people doesn't pay sufficient 
> attention to this point. That's why I think there is no need to use i18n in 
> this occasion. I think in this case it's less important to follow the KDE 
GUI 
> guidelines than to follow the intention of the program.

No, it's really not.  I'm sorry, but you can't throw out KDE conventions just 
because it you don't think they're relevant.  In this case I think there are 
really two options -- try to get the convention changed, or make your 
application follow the convention.  

> As a compromise I will add in further versions the possibility to choose an 
> option with buttons that use i18n. But the default value will be Spanish.

I would support the opposite.  Make it by default use i18n and as an option 
allow it to be in Spanish.  Even on this you should make sure that your 
application is consistent with the i18n strings that are used in similar 
Spanish applications.

Again, I'm not trying to discredit KVerbos (in fact I wrote something similar 
many years ago when I was first learning Spanish), etc.  It's just a matter 
of what is important for applications that are part of KDE.  One of the 
things that can be restrictive for application developers working on KDE is 
that you lose some control, but I, and I assume you do too, think it is worth 
it.

Again, something of apologies, I really don't like putting on my 
big-mean-style-beast hat, but it is important.  Nor is this an attempt to 
stop the discussion; mostly just my opinion.

Thanks,

-Scott


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