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List:       kde-edu
Subject:    Re: [kde-edu]: proposal
From:       Sebastian Stein <s5228 () informatik ! htw-dresden ! de>
Date:       2002-06-10 19:20:47
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Anthony Moulen <ajmoulen@alum.mit.edu> [020610 20:53]:
> Why teach an outdated model only to turn around and teach the right way to
> build applications later?

Because it easier to teach.

> But when you start programming you want to see neat results and such.

That is true, but good results are in structured language as well very
possible. I think in this about PHP to create dynamic web pages (yes, PHP is
hybrid, you can program in a structured and an object orientated way as
well).

> It is also often believed that teaching non-object oriented languages
> first makes it more difficult to properly learn and use object oriented
> programming techniques, as you try first to apply a functional or
> procedural method to solve your problem before moving to an object
> oriented model.

That may be true, but I think you are missing some points:

1. We are talking about a program for young people, who never did some
programming
2. Object orientated programming (OOP) needs a lot of abstraction. The
theory of OOP is really complex compared to structured programming
3. Kids solve their problems in a structured way. If they want to build
a house, they put brick over brick. But they don't define first a brick and
then inherit the brick to a new class and so on.

> In what little programming I have taught (high school and junior high
> levels), I would now have wished I had started with something like Java
> then moved on to C++ and then maybe straight C.

Hhm, my experiences are the other way around. I know a lot of people who
where forced to first learn C and then C++. They managed C not really good
but it was enough. But a lot of people never understood what they are really
doing in C++, because there are some many words like class, operator,
inherit, function overloading, virtual functions and so on.

> As for Pascal, is there really much going on around Pascal these days?

No, Pascal was created as a language to teach good structured programming.
But if you can do Pascal, it is an easy step to get to Delphi (Kylix), which
is OOP.

> I will tell you this now, students learn better when they can apply what they
> learn to real situations.

Yes, this is true. But a GUI class has a lot of overhead. You can write
really nice things with structured languages to solve some mathematical
problems. Or to create dynamic web pages.

> You teach them a language that isn't used,

Linux kernel
Gnome desktop environment
a lot of dynamic web services
a lot of embedded devices are programmed in C

> What neat things can you do with C inside of KDE?

The question is: "Do you want to give an introduction into KDE programming
or into programming?"

> There is a reason there are objects now.

There is a reason why there are different languages for different problems.
You allways have to choose the right language for the problem.

So again, I'm not against OOP. I really like it. But KDE programming is
quite complex to be a good starting point. It is more for a little bit
experienced programmers.
If you want a app to teach the basics of programming, I think a structured
language is much better. But yes, you cannot do very much with C in KDE.

Steinchen
-- 
http://www.hpfsc.de/ - die Seite rund um:
Assembler, Bundeswehr, TFT LCDs, Halle/Saale, Fahrradtouren,
Wanderstaat Mauma, Raumschiff USS Nathan, Enemy Room, MLCAD Tutorial
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