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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: High performance liquid screenshots
From:       Andreas Pour <pour () mieterra ! com>
Date:       2001-06-10 23:20:28
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Eric Laffoon wrote:

[ ... ]
 
> Uwe makes some valid points as does Andreas. However we are looking at things
> in ideals. Ideally and in the truest legal sense KDE is a non entity against
> whom you cannot really bring suit... but this is not an ideal world.

Hi,

KDE is made up of individuals and operates through identifiable assets
(servers).  Legal suit can be brought against the individuals, and those
controlling the servers.  Also one has to have one's head in the sand
not to realize that a natural consequence of having KDE be distributed
by distributions is that the distributions' servers and CDs can be
enjoined.  So there are plenty of ways to stop the distribution of KDE.

[ ... ]
 
> The moral of the story? Mosfet and Uwe are probably right... and I'd like to
> agree with them and back them... but as a practical matter it might be a good
> idea to do the following.
> 
> 1) Make some review (find on line documentation) of Apple's recent agressions.
> 2) Have a page on line somewhere to document this and that care was taken to
> address these concerns.
> 3) If we procede include docs disclaiming that some concerns were addressed
> and the conclusions were drawn that there was no viable legal issue.

There is no possible way to draw such a conclusion -- even if you could
get a lawyer to agree to this in one country (which is very unlikely b/c
the case is fact-specific) you could never do it for all legal
jurisdictions where KDE is distributed.

> What this would do is this:
> 1) Clear up the repeated concerns expressed here with a link to go to.
> 2) Provide documentation should a frivolous lawsuit from Apple arise that we
> did in fact take precautions *not* to violate any copyright, etc...

These precautions won't mean a whole lot when there have already been
plenty of people arguing that there is a potential legal problem; at
that point you are "on notice" and then if the chips fall badly you are
in hot water.

> 3) Provide an indemnification for KDE as an organization should any
> difficulties arise with a frivolous lawsuit from Apple against a distro. It
> would be clear that we believed there was no viable legal issue... but that
> we had still provided docs explaining this should Apple wish to use the law
> as a harrasing weapon.

Whether its harrassing or not is a legal conclusion.  If their case has
merits and they win in court (should it go so far) it is not harrassing
(well, maybe it is in your own philosophical code).

As far as indemnification goes, that's not going to fly either.  Even if
the mechanisms were in place to obtain imdemnification (you could try to
change the license for the theme to provide for this), most if not all
jurisdictions I am aware of do not enforce indemnification of what are
called "intentional torts".  Copyright/trademark infringement fall under
that general heading.  On a more practical level, KDE is not going to
sue a distributor for indemnification.  On an even more practical level,
the damage caused to KDE's reputation if distros get financially injured
as a result of distributing KDE (e.g., having to recall all the boxed
sets sitting in stores) is the biggest drawback.

> That is my opinion. I'm sure Daniel may not be wild about it and he may be
> right but what I have learned is that it is the appearance of impropriety to
> avoid because so often perceptions trump reality. It seems to me that KDE has
> an excellent reputation and it would be good to be sure it is not wrongly and
> adversely affected. I'm sure there are others who would help with this and I
> know many of us are eager to run the style (and personally feel like Uwe ;).

I think it's fair to put these on the web.  Also since KDE is "network
transparent" it should be possible to enable the theme manager to browse
themes stored on a server.  So e.g. a page on KDE.org can
(www.kde.org/themes.xml) have an XML file with a list of themes, links
to previews and links to the actual theme; and the theme manager then
can get previews of these themes from the host (e.g., kde.themes.org or
mosfet.org) and provide an easy button for users to download/cache
themes and previews.  

Several advantages to this:
  * if someone does send a cease-and-desist letter against a theme, the
worst thing is that KDE will have to remove a link from its pages,
rather than distributors being faced with an embarrassing and costly
recall
  * it is far easier to update themes, no need for a new release but new
themes are instantly available to all KDE users.

The disadvantage is that people have to be 'Net-connected to load some
themes, but I think the great bulk of KDE users have Internet
connections.

Just my thoughts.

Ciao,

Dre
 
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