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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    about our attitude towards M$ windows
From:       aleXXX <alexander.neundorf () rz ! tu-ilmenau ! de>
Date:       1999-05-28 16:01:31
[Download RAW message or body]

Hi,

at the moment I'm really quite frustrated.
I always thought there is an OS named Windows which is market leader and
if we want to have success with KDE
we should try to support useful features offered by windows (yes, there
are some).
What I'm speaking of is accessing windows shares in LAN's using samba.
Since it's terrible if not even impossible to browse the windows/samba
shares in a LAN using the command line tools,
I'm writing a tool to simplfy this task extremely (yes, really
extremely).
Let's say you are connected to LAN with about 100 hosts and e.g. you
want to have a look if somebody has a special mp3-file
on his host (ooops).
It is actually impossible to browse more than 3 or 4 hosts using the
command line tools (no, I'm really not to lazy to type commands in the
bash).
To simplify this task I wrote kNetmon
(http://www.rz.tu-ilmenau.de/~lekus/netmon.html, there you can find a
screenshot too), which is at the moment in kde-nonbeta.
With this tools accessing shares is almost as simple as under windows
and it looks quite similar to the "network neighbourhood" in M$
exploder, additionally supports NFS and Novell Netware(experimental),
and other networking tools.

IMO it would be really good to move this program to kdenetwork (for KDE
1.x for now)
(this is actually what my mail is all about).
It runs stable and really adds usability to linux (not only KDE), it's
much more useful than e.g. KNU, which actually
adds no functionality and definitely more stable then e.g. KRN (the
newsreder), which reliable dumps core form time to time.

So I wrote to Stephan Kulow, because AFAIK he is the one who is
responsible for this stuff.
First time I wrote to him was short before KDE 1.1 release, so it was
too late, before 1.1.1 I didn't have very much time,
so now it could go into 1.1.2.
Ok, he did the work to make it compile with Qt 2.0, this was nice.
But was followed I almost couldn't believe, it was like talking to a
wall, not like talking to a friend.
To summarize his statements, he said he is not connected to a LAN with
windows-hosts, all networks he knows are UNIX-ones,
and he doesn't like the name kNetmon, so why move it from kdenonbeta to
kdenetwork ?

(Falls ich Dich voellig falsch verstanden haben sollte, bitte ich Dich
hiermit schon mal um Entschuldigung).

I didn't believe it !
To have success we must support this stuff, it is almost as important as
e.g. a good mp3-player for a modern desktop.

At the moment I am student at the Technical University of Ilmenau (you
know, the best TU of germany and the town,
where Dagmar Schipanski is from). Here there are about 3000 students,
most of them live in hostels/ apartment huoses  (soll studentenwohnheim
heissen). In almost every of these houses the students connected their
computers to LAN's.
I would say more than 90 percent of the computers are running windows.
To be not completely isolated here you have to use samba, I described
already how awfull this is.
All students I know which are connected to such a LAN and which are
running Linux with KDE and especially the ones
which just a short time ago started using linux use and like (I don't
want to say love, but it's the only tool for this task) kNetmon.
I started working an kNetmon in january 1998 and since the LAN's we have
here are quite different configured ones,
I can say that kNetmon runs well and stable with all these different
configurations.
You may say there is somebody working on support for the smb-protocoll
for Konquerer for KDE 2.0.
Ok, but kNetmon is working _NOW_ and it also supports NFS and Novell
Netware, in the future I hope Apletalk too
(if I find somebody who has access to such a network) and this not only
for KDE apps, but for all apps, since it mounts the stuff.

Here some comments from users and after them for the ones who understand
german (I think many of of you) the conversation between me and Coolo.

<cite>
Subject:
         knetmon............ was sonst?! :-)))
    Date:
         Fri, 28 May 1999 13:32:55 +0200
   From:
         Stefan Lang <lang@organet.com>
     To:
         alexander.neundorf@rz.tu-ilmenau.de

Hallo Alexander,
zunaechst einmal vielen Dank, dass Du der Menschheit dieses megageile
Teil
hast zukommen lassen :-) ...
</cite>

<cite>
Subject:
         KNetmon Minipatch
    Date:
         Fri, 14 May 1999 13:40:05 +0200 (CEST)
   From:
         Stephan Krings <slothkri@zedat.fu-berlin.de>
     To:
         alexander.neundorf@rz.tu-ilmenau.de


Hallo,
...
Ansonsten ein sehr praktisches Programm. Ich benutze es für ein
kleines privates Netz, um schnell auf die Shares des Rechners meiner
Freundin zuzugreifen.
</cite>

<cite>
Subject:
         KNetmon
    Date:
         Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:47:55 +0200
   From:
         Dominik Kubla <kubla@netz.klinik.uni-mainz.de>
     To:
         Alexander.Neundorf@rz.tu-ilmenau.de


Nettes Tool. Hier noch ein paar Ideen:
...
</cite>

<cite>
Subject:
              so einiges zu knetmon 0.96.2
        Date:
              Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:59:24 +0100
        From:
              Kai Troester <kai.troester@rz.tu-ilmenau.de>
 Organization:
              TU-Ilmenau
          To:
              alexander.neundorf@rz.tu-ilmenau.de


hi
erst enmal danke fuer den knetmon. es ist ein echt nuetzliches tool das
den umstieg von windoz auf linux echt vereinfacht.
</cite>

<cite>
Subject:
              knetmon
        Date:
              Tue, 02 Feb 1999 13:31:11 +1030
        From:
              Ben Kramer <ben@webmedia.com.au>
 Organization:
              WebMedia Australia P/L
          To:
              alexander.neundorf@rz.tu-ilmenau.de

Hello !
Good looking program, ...
</cite>

<cite>
ubject:
         knetmon
    Date:
         Tue, 11 May 1999 21:51:19 +0200
   From:
         martinfisch@t-online.de (Martin Fischer)
     To:
         alexander.neundorf@rz.tu-ilmenau.de


Lieber Herr Neundorf,
in SuSE 6.0 war Ihr Tool in knetutil implementiert und hat mir gute
Dienste geleistet.
...
</cite>

<cite>
Subject:
              Re: knetmon
        Date:
              Thu, 27 May 1999 15:56:15 +0200
        From:
              Lemsi <Lemsi@gmx.de>
 Organization:
              tui-net
          To:
              aleXXX <alexander.neundorf@rz.tu-ilmenau.de>
   References:
              1 , 2


sach mal in welcher welt lebt denn dieser typ ? isser irgendwie komisch
?
warum ist M$ denn so reich, weils keienr benutzt ? nee dieses kaestchen
denken ist doch wohl erschuetternd. dieses von einem entwickler ... ich
fass es nicht. ohne linux an gewisse M$ standarts zu fuehren ist es mit
dem endsieg noch weit hin ;-)

naja viel glueck weiterhin ...
ps: ich bin auf jedenfall begeistert von deiner arbeit
--
        A L L E S  W I R D  G U T  . . .  !

         LEMSI , admin of TUI-NET !
           http://www.tui-net.de
</cite>

And now my conversation with Coolo:

<cite>
aleXXX wrote:
>
> Stephan Kulow wrote:
>
> > Inzwischen sind die auch behoben und knetmon compiliert und
installiert
> > sauber. Einziges Problem: es macht scheinbar nichts :)
> >
> > Gruss, Stephan
>
> Hmm, da laeuft irgendwas faslch :-)Ist bei Dir samba installiert ?
> Alles richtig konfiguriert ? (bloede frage, aber meistens liegts
daran)
>
Noe, warum sollte ich auch samba installieren. Aber das kann das tool
doch
rausfinden.

Gruss, Stephan
</cite>

<cite>
aleXXX wrote:
>
> Im moment muss samba (in der neuesten version geht auch der
novell-netware
> kram) installiert sein,
> sonst geht freilich nix, schliesslich ist es ja primaer dazu gedacht,
den
> zugriff auf windows-netzwerke zu vereinfachen.
> Soweit ich weiss, muesste es Dir bei programmstart aber gesagt haben,
dass es
> das alles nicht findet und das es wohl nicht
> gehen wird.

Nun, es hat gemeckert, dass ein paar Programme nicht da sind. Warum
heisst es denn knetmon, wenn es nicht fuers Netz, sondern nur fuer samba
geht?

Unter knetmon stelle ich mir aber ganz sicher was anderes vor.

Gruss, Stephan
</cite>

<cite>
aleXXX wrote:
>
> Stephan Kulow wrote:
>
> > Nun, es hat gemeckert, dass ein paar Programme nicht da sind. Warum
> > heisst
> > es denn knetmon, wenn es nicht fuers Netz, sondern nur fuer samba
geht?
>
> Hauptsaechlich samba, ausserdem NFS, novell netware und einige andere
sachen
> ... (von mir hier die selben argumente wie oben)...
> > Unter knetmon stelle ich mir aber ganz sicher was anderes vor.
>
> Da gibt es ein programm fuer windows, das heisst netmon und mit dem
als vorbild
> hab ich angefangen.Ich habe auch schon mal ueber einen anderen namen
nachgedacht,
> aber mir is nix besseres eingefallen.

das mit Windows ist kein Argument und maximal sind _lokale_ Netze
Windows-netze.
Alles Netze, die ich kenne, laufen unter UNIX und mit NFS. Also netmon
unter Solaris
waere ganz sicher was anderes.

Gruss, Stephan
</cite>

<cite>
AleXXX wrote:
> Also sehr konstruktiv war das jetzt nicht.
>
Muss ja nicht :)

Gruss, Stephan
</cite>

Who read this may understand my bad mood at the moment.

Bye
Alex

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