'Re: Serving a particular user group'

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List: kde-devel
Subject: Re: Serving a particular user group
From: Robby Stephenson <robby () periapsis ! org>
Date: 2009-11-19 5:05:15
Message-ID: d441b5d30911182105j3149e688p11abfebb0e71e9a8 () mail ! gmail ! com
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Hi Anne,

Thanks for bringing up the issue. It was something I'd wondered about, but I
apologize for not searching more diligently for some information on the
dividing line between Techbase and Userbase.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 8:09 AM, Anne Wilson <cannewilson@googlemail.com>wrote:

> I need some input on what is for me a tricky problem.  When we started
> UserBase I felt that I was quite clear as to what was relevant, and what
> was
> Techbase material.  We spelled it out on http://userbase.kde.org/Userbase.
> However, I am again facing the problem of someone who wants to give
> detailed
> instructions on how to compile an application from source.
> http://userbase.kde.org/Tellico/Compiling.  Every time I have spoken to
> regular contributors on Userbase the reply has been unanimous - this is not
> what Userbase was set up for.
>
> Clearly this is outside the remit that we first understood.  On the other
> hand, looking at Techbase's structure, there is no obvious home for it
> there.
> I would like some opinions on how we should cater for that group of users -
> power users? - who want to build a package from source because their distro
> doesn't provide it.  I see them as being probably much more knowledgeable
> than
> the average user, but on the other hand not developers either.
>

Let me push back on that definition a bit. The page on Userbase for
compilation instructions for Tellico was originally in the Tellico
documentation. When I changed from autoconf/configure to cmake, the info
became out of date. When I had the first release for KDE4, many users were
rather impatient to get it immediately rather than waiting for distribution
support. Believe me, I've never gotten so many emails complaining about not
knowing how to compile.

I urged them strongly to wait for packages from the distributions, but in
the mean time, I put up the page. For several of the people who emailed me,
Tellico was the first package they'd ever tried to compile. For better or
for worse, they weren't more knowledgeable at all.

One other note is that some distros are making packages without webcam
support, or without cddb support. And when a user asks how to compile
Tellico on their own in that case, I need to have a page to send them to.
It's also in the COMPILING file in the source tarball now.

I suspect that the only sensible way is to make a decision to support those
> users in a section either on userbase or on techbase, and try to enforce it
> fairly strictly.  Personally I would prefer it to be a section of Techbase,
> hoping that it would encourage that type of user to explore Techbase and
> possibly become more of a contributor.  If that's not acceptable I have to
> think about how we can handle it in Userbase, without risking ordinary
> users
> being frightened away because they see pages of build instructions.
>

I'm happy to move it to Techbase. I'd just modify the link in the primary
Tellico page http://userbase.kde.org/Tellico to point to that page. But it's
a wide grey area, I think, about how to divide that kind of info. I can put
a big fat warning on the main Userbase Tellico page when I link to the
compiling instructions.

I'd started to put up some articles about using Tellico on the Tellico
website itself. But with the extra exposure and translation opportunity on
Userbase, I decided to start putting things there. Upcoming pages could
include

  - Installing scripts from kde-files.org (not writing scripts, just
installing them, which involves copying files)
  - Installing template files (there's a button for this, but for
completeness, I would include command-line instructions)
  - DBUS examples

along with "typical" userbase stuff like step-by-step instructions for doing
things in Tellico, etc. But should those "atypical" things go on Techbase?
I'd welcome any feedback.

Thanks!
Robby

[Attachment #5 (text/html)]

Hi Anne, Thanks for bringing up the issue. It was something I&#39;d wondered \
about, but I apologize for not searching more diligently for some information on the \
dividing line between Techbase and Userbase. <div class="gmail_quote">

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 8:09 AM, Anne Wilson <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a \
href="mailto:cannewilson@googlemail.com" \
target="_blank">cannewilson@googlemail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt \
0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">

I need some input on what is for me a tricky problem. When we started 
UserBase I felt that I was quite clear as to what was relevant, and what was 
Techbase material. We spelled it out on <a href="http://userbase.kde.org/Userbase" \
target="_blank">http://userbase.kde.org/Userbase</a>. However, I am again facing \
the problem of someone who wants to give detailed instructions on how to compile \
an application from source. <a href="http://userbase.kde.org/Tellico/Compiling" \
target="_blank">http://userbase.kde.org/Tellico/Compiling</a>. Every time I have \
spoken to regular contributors on Userbase the reply has been unanimous - this is \
not what Userbase was set up for. 
 
Clearly this is outside the remit that we first understood. On the other 
hand, looking at Techbase&#39;s structure, there is no obvious home for it there. 
I would like some opinions on how we should cater for that group of users - 
power users? - who want to build a package from source because their distro 
doesn&#39;t provide it. I see them as being probably much more knowledgeable \
than the average user, but on the other hand not developers \
either. </blockquote><div> Let me push back on that definition a bit. The page \
on Userbase for compilation instructions for Tellico was originally in the Tellico \
documentation. When I changed from autoconf/configure to cmake, the info became out \
of date. When I had the first release for KDE4, many users were rather impatient to \
get it immediately rather than waiting for distribution support. Believe me, I&#39;ve \
never gotten so many emails complaining about not knowing how to compile.

I urged them strongly to wait for packages from the distributions, but in the \
mean time, I put up the page. For several of the people who emailed me, Tellico was \
the first package they&#39;d ever tried to compile. For better or for worse, they \
weren&#39;t more knowledgeable at all.

One other note is that some distros are making packages without webcam support, \
or without cddb support. And when a user asks how to compile Tellico on their own in \
that case, I need to have a page to send them to. It&#39;s also in the COMPILING file \
in the source tarball now.

</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, \
204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> I suspect that the only \
sensible way is to make a decision to support those users in a section either on \
userbase or on techbase, and try to enforce it fairly strictly. Personally I \
would prefer it to be a section of Techbase, hoping that it would encourage that \
type of user to explore Techbase and possibly become more of a contributor. If \
that&#39;s not acceptable I have to think about how we can handle it in Userbase, \
without risking ordinary users being frightened away because they see pages of \
build instructions. </blockquote><div> I&#39;m happy to move it to Techbase. \
I&#39;d just modify the link in the primary Tellico page <a \
href="http://userbase.kde.org/Tellico" \
target="_blank">http://userbase.kde.org/Tellico</a> to point to that page. But \
it&#39;s a wide grey area, I think, about how to divide that kind of info. I can put \
a big fat warning on the main Userbase Tellico page when I link to the compiling \
instructions.

I&#39;d started to put up some articles about using Tellico on the Tellico \
website itself. But with the extra exposure and translation opportunity on Userbase, \
I decided to start putting things there. Upcoming pages could include

<br>  - Installing scripts from <a href="http://kde-files.org" \
target="_blank">kde-files.org</a> (not writing scripts, just installing them, which \
involves copying files)<br>  - Installing template files (there&#39;s a button for \
this, but for completeness, I would include command-line instructions)<br>

  - DBUS examples<br><br>along with &quot;typical&quot; userbase stuff like \
step-by-step instructions for doing things in Tellico, etc. But should those \
&quot;atypical&quot; things go on Techbase? I&#39;d welcome any feedback.<br>

<br>Thanks!<br>Robby<br></div></div>

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