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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: KDE4: missing features from KDE3
From:       Pau Garcia i Quiles <pgquiles () elpauer ! org>
Date:       2009-08-04 20:03:40
Message-ID: 3af572ac0908041303y7ca7f7edh5ac02c28cb15885b () mail ! gmail ! com
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Hello,

This conversation is degenerating towards something unrelated.

Facts:
- KDE4 is way better, more extensible and prepared for the future than KDE3 was
- KDE4 is still missing some KDE3 features
- For some users, those features are important
- What's more important, some of those features are LEGITIMATE
- Some (most?) KDE developers don't know about those legitimate
features, therefore we cannot implement them. Just because we don't
know they are missing and people value them.

In my opinion, we need some place to gather all those KDE3 feature
requests, then:

- For stupid and/or illegitimate requests (for instance "bring kicker
back!", "implement KDE4 with Qt 1.x", etc), a short explanation is
given. When someone comes again to request that KDE3 missing feature,
we already have an answer.

- For legitimate requests, we try to implement them. No pressure. No
need to rush. Slowly but steady.

Now, I don't care what system we use (wiki, bugzilla, openfate,
brainstorm, etc) but I think these are reasonable requirements:

- It should be easy to find for users (to add missing-features
requests) and developers
- It should be easy to gather all those feature requests in one list
- It should be easy to post progress (i. e. "I'm working on it", "it
won't be fixed because ...", etc)

IMHO:
- Brainstorm is not the best tool for that. Neither for users nor for
developers.
- We don't have OpenFATE (do we?)
- Wiki (userbase) is easy for users and it would be easy to have a
one-page list of those features, but it's not the best tool to keep
progress and I don't like the idea of user continually vandalizing the
page (i. e. removing "won't fix" notices)
- BugZilla would be perfect for developers. It's just a matter of
adding a new category "KDE3 missing feature". Users tend not to like
Bugzilla but it they are really interested in that feature, they can
afford some pain. Can we get this?

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Aaron J. Seigo<aseigo@kde.org> wrote:
> On Tuesday 04 August 2009, Parker Coates wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 14:00, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
>> > the user community is making a bed for itself that i don't think it's
>> > going to want to lie in.
>>
>> I think more accurate portrayal might be "A relatively small number of
>> ingrates is pissing in the bed the whole user community is forced to
>> share."
>
> when one developer does something unfortunate in public, it's the entire
> project that is held responsible for it. that's probably fair, and it ensures
> that we care about keeping some level of support there for each other so that
> we are all on the same page and not making too many repeat mistakes. it also
> means that when one of us screws up (it happens, we're all human), a bunch of
> us go into fix-it mode.
>
> contrast this with the user situation.
>
> when one (or a few) users do something unfortunate in public, it's always
> "those few users". i don't buy that anymore.
>
> there is a user community that revolves around KDE which has a lot of
> interaction with us. they are a special group of people who care a lot about
> f/oss and KDE in particular and spend time interacting with others in the KDE
> world. that's undeniably GREAT.
>
> but it's a community not unlike the developer community in terms of shared
> responsibility and coherence.
>
> right now the development community is expected to manage those users and
> that's really not possible as it ends up exposing us-them lines (users -
> developers), nor is it fair to the developers who are already fairly busy
> making the software and managing the development community.
>
> we have the community working group, and it's a great huge first step. it
> would be awesome to see more of the involved user community start to take into
> consideration that there's a shared responsibility here amongst all of those
> people. if it's a few people pissing in the bed, those laying in that bed
> ought to do something about it. if nobody does anything about it, then it
> isn't just a few people pissing in the bed, it's everybody.
>
> --
> Aaron J. Seigo
> humru othro a kohnu se
> GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43
>
> KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Software
>
>
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>
>



-- 
Pau Garcia i Quiles
http://www.elpauer.org
(Due to my workload, I may need 10 days to answer)
 
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