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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: Fork of KDE4/Qt3?
From:       "Mark A. Taff" <marktaff () comcast ! net>
Date:       2008-06-11 1:43:50
Message-ID: 200806101843.50188.marktaff () comcast ! net
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On Tuesday 10 June 2008 03:15:07 Gael Beaudoin wrote:
> > > Let's get thing straight :
> > >
> > >  * The plasma team is well aware of your concerns.
> >
> > 	What does that mean exactly?  Right.  It means absolutely nothing.  It's
> > what politicians say when you express your opinion on a matter, and they
> > want to blow you off.
>
> It simply means that issues you mentioned were expressed before and are
> known (like icons on desktop). And will be worked on. This has been stated
> by aaron several times.
>
> > >  * Please wait a little bit more while everyting is being done.
> >
> > 	Please, define 'little bit'. KDE 4.2? 4.3?
>
> Yeah, something like that. Just look at the improvement between 4.0 and 4.1
> and you'll get an idea at how things will improve. The plasma team is
> working like mad on providing in 4.1 all what people miss in 4.0 from 3.5.
> Unfortunately, not all is there. But in due time, it will, no worries about
> that.

I hope they will be fixed.  I am sure there are a great many people who would 
like to see them fixed, sooner rather than later.  But I'm certainly not 
going to stand by and let Aaron treat people like a toilet in the hopes that 
he will fix plasma.

> > >  * Please understand you are doing harm to the project by hurting
> > > people.
> >
> > 	Last I checked, I'm not the one bullying other contributors.  You are
> > welcome to ignore Aaron's bullying if you like.  But please explain to me
> > why I should stand by and permit Aaron to insult and degrade
> > contributors, whether myself or others?
>
> You're exagerating a little bit here.

Who (how?) am I bullying others?  Where did I say that someone was too stupid 
to understand?  Only was only capable of reading a newspapr (USA Today)? Or 
didn't know how to develop software?  I see you didn't even try to explain 
why I should stand by and let Aaron inult others.  Why not?

> But I can understand why. I can also 
> understand aaron's words. Just step back and say 'weell, ok, let's start
> over'. This is what I'm trying to do, again : assure you that issues are
> known and worked on. And please, don't compare to politics, all is done in
> the open. All we're refering to is available somewhere in source code,
> blogs, mailing lists, etc.
>
> > How many potential developers, translators, doc
> > writers, artists, have decided not to help because they don't want to get
> > treated like a toilet by Aaron?
> How many developpers, contributors, translators are working on KDE because
> of Aaron ? That include myself, even If I don't contribute a lot.

Yes, and imagine if he wasn't so insulting?  Would we have had even more 
contributors?

> > People laugh about Steve Ballmer losing his temper and throwing chairs,
> > but nobody seems to mind when Aaron hurls personal attacks?
>
> Oh come on :)
>
> > Do you or do you not approve of the way Aaron insults people who disagree
> > with him?
>
> This is not black or white. I can just say that if plasma is what it is
> now, it is, in great part, thanks to him. Granted it's not done. Granted
> it's not perfect. But it's already a pretty damn good piece of code.

It is *exactly* black and white.  You either condone his bullying, cursing and 
insulting, or you don't.  And if you don't, all you have to do to get him to 
stop is to add you voice to the chorus who think his behaviour is 
unacceptable and unprofessional.  Bullies only prosper when good people 
refuse to stand up to them.

There is no dispute that Aaron put a lot of work into plasma.  I've referred 
to him as one of its chief architects.  I'm glad at least we argree that the 
state of plasma is, in great part, due to Aaron.  That includes all the stuff 
that doesn't work though, not just those parts that do work.

> > I don't know about elsewhere, but in the U.S. it is a civil tort
> > (harassment) to treat co-workers the way Aaron treats people.  Granted,
> > this isn't a traditional workplace to say the very least, but it is
> > simply unprofessional behaviour.  I do not expect professionals to hurl
> > insults like Aaron does.
>
> You've had an arguement with him. It happens all the time. I does not make
> you or him a bad person.

Aaron is a bully who apparently thrives on insulting people.  In my book, that 
makes him a bad person, at least until he learns to control his fear and 
rage.

Regards,

Mark

 
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