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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: Alternative to traditional (virtual) desktop: The Strip
From:       lordSauron <lordsauronthegreat () gmail ! com>
Date:       2005-12-11 21:45:47
Message-ID: e5a3e9ac0512111345j1dd2983ai120e40f9df074dee () mail ! gmail ! com
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On 12/11/05, Janne Ojaniemi <janne.ojaniemi@nbl.fi> wrote:
> On Saturday 10 December 2005 15:35, Lubos Lunak wrote:
> >Your mail, just like the others in this
> > thread, lacks one important thing that prevented KDE from being yet another
> > long-forgotten something from the 90's - something along the lines of "I
> > will work on it".
>
> Speaking for myself here: I'm not a coder. I couldn't code my way out of an
> empty room if I had to. Does that mean that my suggestions are less valid?

No, but it does mean that some will resent that you're in the
*developers* mailing list.

> > If it's just accidentally missing, you are welcome to
> > join kwin@kde.org . If not, then just submit your wish at bugs.kde.org and
> > wait until the kwin team gets to it.
>
> I thought about doing that, yes. But I decided to first find out what other
> thought of the idea. Healthy discussion is a good thing, and I think this
> place has better potential for that than bugs.kde.org. After the idea has
> been refined, it could be submitted to b.k.o.

Developers are a good choice for discussing, true.  However, it's
somewhat on the rude side to start discussing this in a developer's
mailing list.

> > Anybody
> > can have ideas, but they don't magically become reality, somebody has to
> > write and maintain that. Sorry for spoiling the fun, but that's the way it
> > is.
>
> I don't think anyone here has said "I want this feature NOW! Get coding you
> lazy bastards!". It was more like a "Here's a nifty idea, what do you guys
> think? Could something like this be done?". No-one is expecting this feature
> to magically appear from thin air.
>
> Or should I intrepet your mail so that only those who can code are allowed to
> have ideas and suggestions? If some non-coder makes a suggestion, the
> suggestion should be ignored. And only coders can discuss things.

Shut up until you stop flaming.  No one should be considered inferior
here, though I have to admit you're *not* in the correct place to be
carrying on this discussion.

> If that is the way you feel, then I'm afraid that KDE will remain "designed by
> coders, for coders"-desktop, and we can forget about "conquering the
> desktop"-thingy, since 99% of people are not coders. How do coders know how
> non-coders use their computers? Are coders experts in usability and look &
> feel? I'm not saying that I'm an expert on those fields, but fact remains
> that coders know code. But that doesn't mean that they know every other thing
> as well inside out. And just because someone is not a coder does not mean
> that their suggestions should be ignored.

While coders aren't 100% of the target users, they do have a very good
idea of what best, considering their life's work is spent on the
computer, whereas most other people aren't totally dependant on it for
their paycheck.

In my expience, there's something called "programmer art."  It's not
something you want to look at unless you want to go blind for a couple
hours.  However, coders are really good at UI design, making it
streamlined and properly laid-out.  However, they should (most of
them, anyways) stay away from the GIMP...

> Designing a modern GUI requires cooperation from several groups. Coders are
> just one of them. But I can't help but feel that in KDE and open source in
> general, the coders are the one who make decisions, while others play second
> fiddle. Regardless of the fact that their input would be just as important in
> the grand scheme of things.

In open-source development, the big key is that if you want something
to get done, don't offend those that would be the ones who go and do
it.  I think this would be a good time for you to unsubscribe from
this list and carry on the discussion in a more appropriate area. 
However, I think that no one can honestly say your ideas are garbage,
and you should certainly go get them refined before trying to start a
new project.

> >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe

I would suggest going there now.
 
>> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
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