[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] 

List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: Questions about splitting kdebase into a plethora of packages
From:       Lokheed <lokheed () gmail ! com>
Date:       2005-02-10 23:58:18
Message-ID: 420BF51A.708 () gmail ! com
[Download RAW message or body]

Yes konqueror without kio-slaves is available in the jumbled mess of 
ebuilds. They have also split each individual kio-slave to add to 
further confusion.

I understand what you are saying and it has set aside my fears of 
stability as it seems KDE can handle being split into modules like this 
with the main problem being usability and missing services/features.

The split was not thought of, it was just done. They have not thought 
about what should be in KDE rather, making it a horrific mess of ebuilds 
that a user must wade through. It is all fine if you know and test what 
ebuilds work for you and finally achieve a level where all the 
functionality of KDE is to your satisfaction. Some users (myself 
included) do not have a problem installing maybe the odd program in KDE 
that won't get used as not all of us have oodles of time to spend on 
fixing something that wasn't broken to begin with.

We are left in the cold in favour of change that has been forced upon us.

Thanks again for your reply, you have put many of my fears to rest and 
know comes the tedious point of accepting the inevitable. Thanks Lauri,

Lokheed

Lauri Watts wrote:

>On Thursday 10 February 2005 22.17, Lokheed wrote:
>
>  
>
>> From what I have read and the replies, it appears KDE does not have
>>really any official stance but my main concern is the stability. I have
>>yet to read about stability issues in splitting up kde like this. I was
>>under the assumption that some components (kcontrol for example) where
>>critical for kde to function, but I have not read anything to disprove
>>or prove this.
>>    
>>
>
>It's less about stability, than about expected behaviour of applications.  
>
>For instance: If someone asks how to configure flash, we can tell them where 
>it is in kcontrol.  It's needlessly confusing to the user if it's not there 
>where we tell them, and means that well meaning users who read the 
>documentation or google for the answer first, will by the time they get to us 
>be doubly confused.  So they have to first go install a separate package to 
>add the capability to use plugins to konqueror first.  And we have to 
>remember to nag users to tell us what distribution of what os they're using, 
>before answering their question, since the answer will vary widely depending 
>on what that is. 
>
>One that used to come up on debian a lot (not in a long time, it was fixed): 
>The laptop monitoring daemon and the GUI to configure it, were quite 
>separate.  Many users would install the daemon, and have no way to configure 
>it.  A couple managed to install the gui, without the daemon, and wonder why 
>changing the settings had no effect.  
>
>Dependency chains on this granular a level are just a nightmare to manage 
>without getting into a loop somewhere, and people manage to circumvent even 
>fairly careful checking, if they're determined enough.
>
>I should note, breaking things up above the kdebase level is much more 
>successful  - the boundaries between applications becomes so much clearer.  
>I tend to describe kdelibs the build-time dependencies for KDE-the-desktop and 
>kdebase the runtime dependencies for KDE-the-desktop, and indeed most of us 
>when offering help tend to assume that *at least* all of kdelibs and kdebase 
>are present, even if the rest is only piecemeal.    Sure, most apps will run 
>fine without kdebase, but you'll have a hard time configure a lot of 
>behaviour, application internal commands may not work as expected, resources 
>may not be available to you, and there may be no easy way to change things.  
>
>For instance, it's short sighted to avoid installing konsole because you don't 
>want to use, without also installing the parts of kcontrol that allow you to 
>tell all KDE apps what you *do* prefer.  Or to not install arts, but then not 
>install the knotify tools that would let you use an external player for audio 
>notifications, and so on.  KDE as a desktop is actually quite accomodating to 
>people who don't want to use the default applications.  KDE as a pile of 
>semi-randomly selected bits and pieces, not so much.  
>
>or my favourite: Konqueror, with no kioslaves installed.  That one actually 
>*was* asked on IRC a couple of times in the last week.
>
>Regards,
>  
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 
>  
>
>>>Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
>>>      
>>>
 
>> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]