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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: QT for Windows released under GPL
From:       Luke-Jr <luke-jr () utopios ! org>
Date:       2005-02-09 16:32:54
Message-ID: 200502091632.55550.luke-jr () utopios ! org
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On Wednesday 09 February 2005 15:15, Bobby wrote:
> The fact of the matter is that KDE on Win32 would most likely (in the short
> run) be GOOD for KDE.  More users, probably more developers, more bug
> reports, etc.. etc..  HOWEVER, KDE on Win32 is almost certainly NOT good
> for Linux/BSD.

Actually, I think it is good for both... The only thing threatening Linux/BSD 
is HURD, and I doubt that will be a real threat anytime soon (or that anyone 
cares... it would probably just become "Linux/BSD/HURD")

>
> On Monday 07 February 2005 18:30, Jason Keirstead wrote:
> > If the apps on Linux were up to snuff ( or identical -as in the case of
> > cross-platform apps like FIrefox, and hopefully soon, KDE ), then the
> > people would have no reason to stay on Windows anymore, because Unix has
> > the edge in the remaining factors * - cost, security, and stability.
>
> This logic baffles me.  If "cost", 'security", and "stability" were strong
> enough catalysts to overcome user angst for leaving what they are used to;
> then alternative OSes would have already gained a larger market share.

I didn't say they were that strong. Applications are somewhat stronger, 
multiplied by the number that the user uses daily. However, if that main 
factor (applications) can be trivialised (by having it available on other 
platforms; e.g., if they use KDE), then suddenly secondary factors such as 
cost/security/stability can come into the decision-making process.

> The simple truth is that we don't have to guess blindly about what will or
> will not happen if KDE is ported to Win32, we have an example to look too.
>   If everything everyone says about "this is so good for OSS" were true
> then Mac OSX should have been a windfall for F/OSS.  People would get a
> chance to use KDE and then make an easy switch over to Linux/BSD w/ KDE.
>  Instead the data shows the opposite has happened... Linux users are
> switching to Mac OSX at a much faster rate then Mac users are switching to
> Linux.  Yes, Linux is growing at a faster rate than Mac is BUT that growth
> IS NOT comming from the Mac platform.

You're comparing OS X (easilly the simplest and prettiest UI in the OS market) 
with Windows (easilly the most confusing and ugliest UI in the OS market). I 
don't know anybody running KDE in OS X. The switch here is mainly from "good 
UI" (KDE) to "better/best UI" (OS X). The underlying kernel/userland is 
trivial in comparison to the UI, in such "conversion" cases.

>
> So what you get is authors for popular Linux magazines writing articles
> about why they switched to Mac... and what do they say?  "On Mac OSX I get
> to run all of my favorite F/OSS applications and all of my non-F/OSS
> applications. The best of both worlds."

OS X doesn't have any (AFAIK) popular applications unique to it. If it did, it 
surely wouldn't be long until we saw MINE Is Not an Emulator... Such a 
project *could* be undertaken for one or two apps since mainly it would just 
need to handle loading the programs into memory properly-- qemu could provide 
CPU emulation (if necessary) and GNUStep already implements the Cocoa API.

On Wednesday 09 February 2005 15:46, Thiago Macieira wrote:
> It will not happen in the short run. The main reasons are: 
>
> 1) kdelibs contains A LOT of Unixisms and X11-related stuff. That means
> kdelibs on Cygwin is not so difficult, but making a non-Cygwin (e.g.,
> mingw32 or VC++) would be a lot harder.

I'm not sure people mind using Cygwin so much.

>
> 2) lack of manpower. While I am sure there will be people willing to work
> on this, will it be enough to keep track of the pace kdelibs evolves?

Does it need much maintainence? If Cygwin is used, the normal POSIX 
cross-platform support should handle most of it.

> Moreover, your very own argument that this would not be good for Linux/BSD
> platforms is a strong deterrent. We *want* people to use free software
> platforms. And as I said in another email, KDE's goal is to provide a
> desktop environment for Unix systems.

Even if KDE would gain a significant number of developers by supporting a 
Windows version? Also, couldn't it be argued that Cygwin is, in a way, a 
"Unix" system?
-- 
Luke-Jr
Developer, Utopios
http://utopios.org/
 
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