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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: DOUBLE RIGHT-CLICK!!!
From:       Dan Bullok <dan.kde () bullok ! com>
Date:       2004-08-19 14:46:45
Message-ID: 200408190946.45422.dan.kde () bullok ! com
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To answer the original question, I believe that RMB double clicking is a 
great idea.  It should not do anything that can't be accessed in another 
manner, however.  It should be user-assignable.   In fact, I think that the 
user should be able to assign all mouse buttons in single, double, and 
triple click to whatever they want.,

Now, to answer the tangent that this thread has gotten on...

On Thursday 19 August 2004 08:09, Maurizio Colucci spake unto us thusly:
> On Thursday 19 August 2004 14:23, Christopher Layne wrote:
> > I couldn't resist this.
> >
> > Have you ever played piano?
> >
> > While a single button is more "simple" it just places more dependency
> > on a single finger.  So dumb down the requirement for motor skills
> > because it's "too complex?" There's a lot of distance 3 or even 4
> > fingers could make use of - and we should be interested in both
> > simplicity, efficiency, and speed.
> >
> > A basic user is not forced to use all buttons available. But I think
> > it's rather lame to dumb down an input interface, using a single finger
> > only, when it could be so much more utilized.
>
> Very true, but how many years does it take to learn piano?
You could learn "Mary had a little lamb" (using three fingers) in about 10 
minutes, even with no prior experience.  And even if you are clumsy.  We're 
not talking about playing Chopin, after all.   

> A requirement of desktop environments is to have near zero learning time,
> so your analogy is surely inspirational but wrong.
>
Horsefeathers! A requirement of a desktop environment is that the user can 
access most features right away, and incrementally learn to be more 
efficient as time goes on.  A computer is a tool, and it requires at least 
a little effort to learn.


> To answer to other posts, I don't propose to remove the right click in
> general, but only for context menus, where it does not improve speed in a
> significant way 
Yes, it does increase speed in a significant way.  That's really one of the 
several holes in your argument.  It really is  a LOT faster.  Yes, even 
with an optical mouse (by the way, an "infrared mouse" is wireless, as far 
as I know).  There is no way that moving the mouse across the screen to 
click something is as fast as clicking a button without moving the mouse.

That information is also available elsewhere (at least in most 
applications), so the user can already discover it if they've been raised 
on one mouse button.  You are also proposing that valuable screen 
real-estate be used for very questionable benefit.  I just don't see the 
advantage to your proposal.  


> (because wired infrared mouse are more precise, and it 
> becomes easier to travel to a visible menu than to switch hand and wait
> for your brain to focus a popup menu).

We have more than one button on mice for a very good reason (I'm not 
counting Apple's "simple" mice).  You keep saying that more than one button 
is too hard for new users.  I dispute that claim.  

Look at it this way:
* A (brand) new user learns to use the mouse to move a pointer.  
* At this point, I think it is logical to assume that the buttons on a mouse 
do something to whatever the pointer is pointing at.
* Hey look, there are different buttons on this mouse, those buttons 
logically must do different things.

In fact, I think the only users that have a real problem with multiple 
buttons are going to be people coming from a mac environment.  New users 
(children) ask me what the other buttons do more often than not, because 
it's a natural question to ask.

Now, you can perhaps make the argument that we need to make sure that the 
items on the context menu are available (discoverable) elsewhere.  I think 
in most cases, it already is, but it couldn't hurt to check.

For the few users that can't grok a right mouse button, how does the current 
functionality make things difficult for them?  They can already access the 
info elsewhere, so why do you want to remove this shortcut?  

Users really are quite smart, in general.  There is no need to dumb down the 
interface.  We simply need to make sure that the user can discover features 
orthogonally.  I think that's been done already, but it's something to be 
vigilant about.  

I really think that you are underestimating our users.  I've seen 
chimpanzees perform experiments where they use several buttons, and If any 
of our users lack the mental capacity of a chimp, they'll just need to find 
another desktop environment.  Remember, if you make a device that even a 
fool can use, then only a fool will use it.

If we want to be friendly to individuals with disabilities, we must be 
maximally flexible in assigning various inputs to actions.  In most cases, 
this will mean allowing the user to use all the buttons on their pointing 
device.  In others, we may be restricted to a single button, and that's why 
I'm advocating making sure that all functions are accessible without a RMB 
click.  Not depending on that button is one thing, but REMOVING it?  No 
way.  it's not going to happen.

-Dan
 
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