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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: Suggestion Box?  ATTN: Dre
From:       Brad Hards <bhards () bigpond ! net ! au>
Date:       2003-05-15 21:15:43
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On Fri, 16 May 2003 06:02 am, James Richard Tyrer wrote:
> I would really like to contribute to the KDE project.
And you can, and any help would (I'm sure) be appreciated.

> Despite the fact that I do not write code, I could still help with
> programing.  Why would I be any help?  Because programs need to be
> designed before they are coded.  It is the hacker mentality to
> immediately start coding.  I have seen several projects on:
>
> 	http://apps.kde.com
>
> that were well coded but were not designed first and therefore didn't
> work.
Equally, good design up front has lead to many non-functional applications 
because the programmers made too many coding errors. 

> being disrespectful.  I say disrespectful because I think (perhaps
> wrongly) that a mature IT professional should get some respect from
> self taught hackers half his age.
I can't agree with this. This is the internet - you will get judged on your 
actions. Qualifications and age count for nothing. Neither does who you work 
for, or the organisations you belong to. Sorry. 

> But, to my question: Where is the suggestion box?  And. no I don't
> mean submitting a 'feature request' bugs.  Somewhere KDE needs to be
> designed and suggestions need to be discussed.  I realize that this is
> contrary to what I see.  What I see seems antithetical to Open Source
> -- a rather closed and insular world where those in that world know
> that they are right about everything and do not want any input from
> the outside; certainly not from users.
I think you misunderstand how this works. The concept of glorious design by 
architects (which is really what you are talking about above) followed by 
programmers implementing the architects vision is unworkable. See ESR's 
essays, especially - http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/

> If you doubt this, please see some of my recent postings.
>
> 1.	[PATCH] kdebase for 'startkde'
>
> I guess nobody understands that a big chunk of the: 'startkde' script
> that supposedly deals with fonts doesn't work correctly and is
> incompatible with FontConfig.
I vaguely recall reading that post. I certainly didn't get that impression 
from your writing.

> 2.	MIME types: inode
>
> Lauri Watts was nice.  But, only suggested that I do something other
> than what I wanted to do.
So you probably didn't convey the message.

> So, my question is, is this (kde-devel) the correct place for such
> suggestions?  If not, does it exist?  Where? And, if not, would KDE
> consider creating such a list?
There is a kde@kde.org list. Perhaps that would help?

> I also wonder if it was that nobody actually understood what I was
> talking about or do the members of the list just want for me to go
> away and leave those 'inside' to themselves.
I have found the list to be quite friendly. I can only suggest that you aren't 
conveying the messages very well. Perhaps you need to provide more 
background, and probably some examples? The type of people that do detail 
programming work tend to have literal understanding (especially if they don't 
speak English as the first language), so it is very bad to argue in the 
abstract or from generality.

> As I said, I would really like to help with the project and I feel
> that I could contribute a lot.
I'd like to welcome you, but also to caution that your experiences on other 
tasks may not be directly applicable. You may have to do a lot of work first. 
As a personal example, I have previously done work on the Linux kernel. KDE 
requires a different mind-set, and a substantially different set of skills. I 
certainly don't think I can contribute much to programming and design (in the 
broad sense you identified above) on KDE without sound understanding of C++, 
the Qt widget set, KDE widget set and GUI design principles. That doesn't 
mean I can't get involved though.

HTH

Brad

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