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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: pkg-config, glib2 etc.
From:       Gary Greene <greeneg () student ! gvsu ! edu>
Date:       2003-03-16 4:45:42
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On Saturday 15 March 2003 23:18, Mosfet wrote:
> Sure does look like it. Arts requires glib so in order to install KDE HEAD
> you need to have glib and all it's dependencies installed :/ If you don't
> want to do this you'd better not upgrade.
>
> If KDE finds it can effectively benefit from glib I'm all for it. I don't
> mean if "this will help gnome interoperate with us better but add bloat to
> KDE". I mean if it offers functionality we really need for KDE. Thus far I
> do not see this as the case. It's just something needed by the soundserver.
> Making KDE require glib just for the soundserver is pretty insane. This
> isn't an interoperability issue - KDE and Gnome do not interoperate any
> better because Arts requires glib code. Maybe Arts itself does, but I think
> very few Gnome people are using Arts and adding dependencies to KDE because
> of it is just wrong if there is no additional benefit.
>
> These are my thoughts, from mosfet.org:
>
> In other news there is some debate going on the mailing lists about ARTS,
> the KDE sound server. Some people want to make it require more libraries,
> even going so far as adding glib as a dependency for the KDE sound server.
> This is getting pretty insane for the basic sound server for KDE. It's
> already extremely bloated and should not need additional dependencies. If
> anything it needs to be stripped down, (a lot). I'd bet that 90% of the
> users only need basic sound mixing for a few KDE apps and some non-KDE
> multimedia players. It needs to be able to do things like allow sounds from
> two different sources, for example allow KDE system sounds while playing a
> video from a MPlayer or an MP3, and to do basic mixing and volume control.
> That's *it*. I'm not an expert on audio so this is only my opinion, but it
> seems like they built a really nice sophisticated audio processing library
> and made it the default sound server. This is not what is needed. It's too
> big and getting bigger. What is needed is a tiny audio multiplexer and
> mixer. It's not that what Arts provides isn't nice, but it's too much for
> the default sound server. I think users would be better served with a new,
> smaller server as default and moving most of the Arts functionality to
> kde-multimedia. The vast majority of users don't use sophisticated audio
> processing, they just want to be able to hear sounds from different sources
> and have the basic volume and mixing controls you'd see on a decent stereo.
>
> Some readers may note that I've argued for more features that users want in
> my editorials. Doesn't this statement conflict with that? Not really. I
> think apps should have the features users want and certainly shouldn't
> remove existing features people use. Often preferences in applications
> don't require that much code, just keeping flexibility in mind when
> designing apps and not intentionally hardcoding things. I don't believe
> core infrastructure should be bloated far beyond what most people use.
>
> On Saturday 15 March 2003 10:12 pm, Sean McGlynn wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I saw the discussions on core-devel recently about glib2 possibly being a
> > requirement for aRts and, thus, KDE as a whole. I didn't actually see a
> > final conclusive yes or no though. Now, I'm compiling CVS for the first
> > time in many months. Arts wanted pkg-config as a requirement, so I
> > downloaded and installed that. (I also noticed that pkg-config has its
> > own copy of glib in the sources). Now Arts wants glib2 as well, which I
> > don't have either yet. Before I proceed further, can I take it that glib2
> > *is* now a definite requirement for KDE3.2 and, also, can I expect Arts
> > to come up with any more "you need this as well" messages.
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Sean
> >
> >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to
> >> unsubscribe <<

I'm personally not thrilled with another dep that I need to have the "best" 
KDE experience available either. I will agree that Stephen is the one 
developing aRts, however, when we pointed these things out to him he became 
decidedly defensive about the whole matter. :(

I fully understand the need for aRts as a cohesive cross-platform sound API, 
but I think that really, it's starting to look more like the very thing that 
KDE opponents use as a rallying cry: "bloatware."

- -- 
Gary L. Greene, Jr.
Sent from uriel.gvsu.edu
 23:39:07 up  4:58,  3 users,  load average: 0.01, 0.12, 0.12
============================================================
Founder and president of the Grand Valley Linux Users Group.
  -=<http://www.gvlug.org>=-
Chief Systems Architect, S4, Inc. - OS Department.
 -=<http://www.s4linux.com/>=-
Project Lead for the Sentinel Linux OS Project (KOMODO)
PHONE : 331-0562
EMAIL : greeneg@student.gvsu.edu
============================================================
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