From kde-devel Sun Mar 16 04:45:42 2003 From: Gary Greene Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 04:45:42 +0000 To: kde-devel Subject: Re: pkg-config, glib2 etc. X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-devel&m=104779010008746 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 15 March 2003 23:18, Mosfet wrote: > Sure does look like it. Arts requires glib so in order to install KDE HEAD > you need to have glib and all it's dependencies installed :/ If you don't > want to do this you'd better not upgrade. > > If KDE finds it can effectively benefit from glib I'm all for it. I don't > mean if "this will help gnome interoperate with us better but add bloat to > KDE". I mean if it offers functionality we really need for KDE. Thus far I > do not see this as the case. It's just something needed by the soundserver. > Making KDE require glib just for the soundserver is pretty insane. This > isn't an interoperability issue - KDE and Gnome do not interoperate any > better because Arts requires glib code. Maybe Arts itself does, but I think > very few Gnome people are using Arts and adding dependencies to KDE because > of it is just wrong if there is no additional benefit. > > These are my thoughts, from mosfet.org: > > In other news there is some debate going on the mailing lists about ARTS, > the KDE sound server. Some people want to make it require more libraries, > even going so far as adding glib as a dependency for the KDE sound server. > This is getting pretty insane for the basic sound server for KDE. It's > already extremely bloated and should not need additional dependencies. If > anything it needs to be stripped down, (a lot). I'd bet that 90% of the > users only need basic sound mixing for a few KDE apps and some non-KDE > multimedia players. It needs to be able to do things like allow sounds from > two different sources, for example allow KDE system sounds while playing a > video from a MPlayer or an MP3, and to do basic mixing and volume control. > That's *it*. I'm not an expert on audio so this is only my opinion, but it > seems like they built a really nice sophisticated audio processing library > and made it the default sound server. This is not what is needed. It's too > big and getting bigger. What is needed is a tiny audio multiplexer and > mixer. It's not that what Arts provides isn't nice, but it's too much for > the default sound server. I think users would be better served with a new, > smaller server as default and moving most of the Arts functionality to > kde-multimedia. The vast majority of users don't use sophisticated audio > processing, they just want to be able to hear sounds from different sources > and have the basic volume and mixing controls you'd see on a decent stereo. > > Some readers may note that I've argued for more features that users want in > my editorials. Doesn't this statement conflict with that? Not really. I > think apps should have the features users want and certainly shouldn't > remove existing features people use. Often preferences in applications > don't require that much code, just keeping flexibility in mind when > designing apps and not intentionally hardcoding things. I don't believe > core infrastructure should be bloated far beyond what most people use. > > On Saturday 15 March 2003 10:12 pm, Sean McGlynn wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I saw the discussions on core-devel recently about glib2 possibly being a > > requirement for aRts and, thus, KDE as a whole. I didn't actually see a > > final conclusive yes or no though. Now, I'm compiling CVS for the first > > time in many months. Arts wanted pkg-config as a requirement, so I > > downloaded and installed that. (I also noticed that pkg-config has its > > own copy of glib in the sources). Now Arts wants glib2 as well, which I > > don't have either yet. Before I proceed further, can I take it that glib2 > > *is* now a definite requirement for KDE3.2 and, also, can I expect Arts > > to come up with any more "you need this as well" messages. > > > > TIA > > > > Cheers, > > Sean > > > >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to > >> unsubscribe << I'm personally not thrilled with another dep that I need to have the "best" KDE experience available either. I will agree that Stephen is the one developing aRts, however, when we pointed these things out to him he became decidedly defensive about the whole matter. :( I fully understand the need for aRts as a cohesive cross-platform sound API, but I think that really, it's starting to look more like the very thing that KDE opponents use as a rallying cry: "bloatware." - -- Gary L. Greene, Jr. Sent from uriel.gvsu.edu 23:39:07 up 4:58, 3 users, load average: 0.01, 0.12, 0.12 ============================================================ Founder and president of the Grand Valley Linux Users Group. -==- Chief Systems Architect, S4, Inc. - OS Department. -==- Project Lead for the Sentinel Linux OS Project (KOMODO) PHONE : 331-0562 EMAIL : greeneg@student.gvsu.edu ============================================================ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+dAF6yPw381UL7WcRAuFeAJ95Djbnhhbpnam7gJFEJHAjZ1qWWACfXONF onDnIbiO1bcm09KDM7nONpo= =1CW6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<