'Re: A case for sharing Desktop and home directory - summary'

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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: A case for sharing Desktop and home directory - summary
From:       Gary Greene <rei () tabris ! net>
Date:       2002-12-03 18:34:06
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On Tuesday 03 December 2002 12:37 pm, Manuel Amador wrote:
> Well, the discussion is huge, and so, I feel I should summarize most of
> what has been said FOR sharing Desktop and home directory - I won't
> summarize what's been said against because I'm a human, and I'm biased.

Hm, signs of a poor debator.

> The proposal is to:
>   * make the default desktop directory for new users equal to the home
>     directory.
>   * make the default documents directory for new users equal to the home
>     directory
>
> What this proposal is not:
>   * change current users' way of work
>   * force everyone to eat the homedir as desktop with salt and pepper
>   * force everyone to sort their own mess (I have mine, and I like it a
>     mess, many thanks =)
>
> Points for:
>
> - quicker access to data for users (*either* directly on the desktop or
>   with the "Home" icon in kicker).
> - easier to understand for newbies: Currently, they save a file in any
>   application and they instantly see it appear, bringing a sense of
>   tranquility and control.  Currently, they try to open a file in all
>   applications and what is the default directory? $HOME.
> - take advantage of operating system facilities: a user's $HOME is
>   customarily intended to save user data (visible) and per-user
>   application data (hidden) -> FHS.
> - reduce work: sharing Desktop and $HOME reduces developer and user work
>   to code for two different cases and to decide where to store files.
>
> Points against, and short rebuttals:
>
> - "My users' desktops will get cluttered!":
>     * so what.  That isn't your clutter.

They'll crab at me then, ever thought about that? I really don't want to read 
tons of Bugzilla reports saying that I've mucked the system up by adding this 
kind of change.

> - "My desktop will get cluttered":
>     * no it wont.  You already have a separate desktop.
>     IF IT DID by odd chance, there are five courses of action:

Yes it will see previous emails.

>     * create a Desktop dir then relogin (see end of e-mail)
>     * change your desktop location via KControl

Extra work that most people won't do.

>     * arrange your clutter in a "Junk to sort" subfolder

Again extra work

>     * live with the clutter (Yay!)

You may like cluttered environments, however most people don't, this is why M$ 
has a desktop clean-up wizard now.

>     * complain to KDE developers and say they're braindead

Great! Just give those of us who are responsable for KDE on our respective 
platforms more mail that reads "you screwed up" or "you're being an idiot." 
Thanks much for opening that door.

> - "Apps put odd files in homedir":
>     * apps should save user data in a visible way (e.g. Mail).
>       Fix braindead apps which don't.

There are far too many third party apps which are as-you-put-it braindead. 

>     * apps should save app data hidden from the user (e.g
>       .mail/indexes).  Fix braindead apps.

read above.

>     * core files shouldn't appear by default
>       (most distros already do this).

And for root? How about the developer taht intentionally turned ulimit off for 
his account? They shouldn't be punished by a cluttered desktop.

>     * newbies don't have bin/ or tmp/.  If you have them,
>       you're not a newbie and you can modify your environment
>       to suit new locations decided by you, or live with them
>       in the desktop.

YES THEY DO HAVE A ~/tmp! 99.999 distros have this set up this as a part of 
the default directory structure. since this is used for a number of apps 
(gaim comes to mind quite notably.)

> - "But what about the desktop metaphor":
>     * metaphor flawed: a PC's desktop does not contain the limitations
>       of a real desktop.  You don't have to bring a document to the
>       desktop to work with it, and doing so would be an unneecssary
>       complication
>     * desktop-used users: They *still see* a desktop.  They might find
>       out during their dealings with KDE that the $HOME and the Desktop
>       are the same, and they'll feel good.

they may still see it, but now it's cluttered. HUI studies have shown that 
most people out there LIKE clean desktops. This was the reason that Autostart 
and Templates were moved OFF the desktop in development of KDE 2.

> - "The desktop isn't equal to the homedir"
>     * logical fallacy.  Following the logical conclusion to applying
>       this proposal, it would REALLY be equal.  Perhaps you need to
>       define more clearly what "really" the desktop is.

The desktop is the background of my UI, it is also the place one finds links 
to the most commonly used applications. Whereas the $HOME directory is the 
place my settings and documents are stored.

>     * that's what we're trying to define, in the first place.  IF the
>       desktop should be equal, for newbies, to the homedir.

You've seen my arguments, I'm opposed.

> Practical guidance (Desktop=$HOME mini-HOWTO for KDE developers):
>
> Set the default Desktop/Documents path to $HOME.  Since .kde doesn't
> contain the old default desktop path, make it so that if Desktop or
> Documents exist, they are used.  If they don't, then $HOME is used.
> This is perhaps a ten-line code change.  That way:
> *  Users who already had configured paths won't be affected.
> *  Users who already have Desktop and Documents directories don't get
>    affected.
> *  Distributors who want to keep using Desktop and homedir separate
>    need only create /etc/skel/Desktop and ship.

Actually most distros modify the $KDEDIR/bin/startkde script to create it at 
startup.

- -- 
Gary Greene                                                                  

Sent from seele.gvsu.edu
 13:10:10  up 10 days, 11:36,  7 users,  load average: 0.36, 0.86, 0.72

=============================================================================
Founder and president of GVLUG.                                              
Chief Systems Architect, S4, Inc. - OS Department.                           
 -=<http://www.s4linux.com/>=-                                               
Project Lead for the Sentinel Linux 2003 OS Project (KOMODO)                 
Chairman and Project Lead of the E-media Committee of AltReal.               
PHONE : 331-0562                                                             
EMAIL : rei@tabris.net                                                       
        greeneg@student.gvsu.edu                                             

- --Developing a emotion daemon for the Human OS                               

Here's the error:                                                            

#mounting local filesystems....................................[     OK     ]
#Virtual Human Brain Driver v0.0.5 (EXPERIMENTAL) R/W fs module              
#Virtual Nerve Node Driver v0.4.1 (EXPERIMENTAL) R/W FS module               
#Insmod Adaptive Technology Device module......................[     OK     ]
#Writing Sync state to Journalled VHBFS........................[     OK     ]
#Stating emotiond..............................................[ FRUSTRATED ]
Segmentation Fault:sending signal 11 SegEV                                   
=============================================================================
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