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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: Qtopia Developer contest
From:       Lars Knoll <lars () trolltech ! com>
Date:       2001-12-06 10:35:49
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Hi,

On Tuesday 04 December 2001 11:15, Andreas Pour wrote:
> Simon Hausmann wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 08:54:49PM -0500, John Gluck wrote:
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > While it's true that KDE is built on Qt, this contest does not appear
> > > to be about KDE. AFAIK you need to have one of these Sharp PDA things
> > > and some kind of devel kit to be able to build and test an app.
> >
> > Not true. As far as I understood it the development takes place
> > using the standard Qt/Embedded 2.3.2 (which is available under the
> > GPL) and the Qt virtual framebuffer (which is part of every Qt
> > distribution) .
>
> Just to clarify (and I am not opposing the announcement on the list,
> heck, I submitted a dot story (in the queue) that includes this
> announcement), the SDK is *binary-only* (though of course you have the
> option of developing with KDevelop instead), and TT *is* promoting
> closed-source development on the Zaurus (which of course makes sense
> since they make their bread and butter there).  I am not criticizing it,
> just trying to keep the facts straight.

This is not 100% true. We are (as we always did) trying to keep a balance 
between open source and closed source software development. You get all the 
sources you need for cross compiling from sourceforge. The SDK is a binary to 
make it easier for people to start working on Qtopia. It is there to satisfy 
the traditional PDA developers who want to create applications for the 
Zaurus, but don't want to release their applications under the GPL. But we 
aren't and were never discouraging open source development. 

> > The final contestants will be given a free Sharp Zaurus
> > to do the final port (which is usually nothing more but recompiling
> > with a cross compiler) .
>
> Well, in terms of what's at stake for the prize sponsors, this strike me
> as pretty lame.  

You really think a total of over $50000 is lame?

> Sharp gets a lot of apps, which helps it compete with
> Windows CE/Palm handhelds and, if successfull, will make it tens of
> millions if not more; TT sells proprietary licenses at $1,500 a pop; and
> the developers that help set this money-making machine in motion get
> what -- a prototype for beta testing?  The $10,000 cash sounds more
> interesting :-), but I hope they consider upping the ante for Open
> Source apps (for commercial ones I don't care, their reward will be
> selling what they have).  And you should also note that by submitting
> your prize you authorize Sharp to use your likeness, etc. for marketing
> -- and, in fact, if they use you in a TV ad, the total amount in value
> of all prizes does not equal what they should rightfully pay you just
> for the TV ad (never mind the code).

We're not selling the licenses for this device, but rather giving them away. 
And the devices they get as a price are not prototypes.

> E.g., I would be much more excited if they offered $10,000 for someone
> to port KOffice to the Zaurus.  Or similar initiatives.  The
> restrictions do not permit people to contribute bazaar-style projects.

We are currently working on changing this.

> And I am not sure I understand why they chose Opera over Konq-e.  Sure,
> Opera is better in some ways, but Konqueror is better in others; and why
> not spend the money paid to Opera to fund Konqueror JS development (like
> letting Harri work on it full-time, if he cares to, or funding others)?
> That way the benefits come not only to Zaurus users but all KDE users.
>
> And I am also not sure why TT is pushing a proprietary SDK over
> KDevelop.  Is this SDK better?  Why was the energy put into this SDK not
> used to make KDevelop better?

We are not pushing the SDK over kdevelop. We just wanted everyone who
wants to create commercial applications to receive the appropriate
tools. It makes sense for us to prefer open source--both for idealogical
reasons, plus the fact that there will be many free applications for the
platform.

> > > It appears to be aimed at commercial developers more than us free stuff
> > > developers.
> >
> > I see it just the other way around. Everyone is free to contribute,
> > the software for development is free software (GPL) and there are a
> > hell of a lot of attractive prices.
>
> Not to knock the prizes, but except for the cash ones, they are all
> Sharp promotional items -- so the cost to Sharp could be shipping only
> (since e.g. they could likely be overstock or items which for some
> insignificant reason do not meet quality control for sale).  Not that
> I'm knocking the prizes, but I think what Sharp is giving the community,
> and what they are asking for in return, needs to be kept in perspective.

This has some technical reasons as the models could vary from country to 
country (making sure they actually work there, eg. PAL vs NTSC...). Anyway, 
everything will be regular models and not some "overstock" as you put it. 
This sounds to me as if you're trying as hard as possible to find downdies to 
this.

> Please don't take this as knocking Sharp.  They are being very smart,
> and I am very happy they have gone with Qt/Linux.  OTOH, I don't know
> why we should not be smart as well, and explore ways Sharp can
> contribute back, particularly if the Zaurus becomes very successful.  A
> sort of arrangement between Sharp and the community -- if the community
> helps Sharp launch a successful product, Sharp will contribute back to
> the community, such as by sponsoring Open Source projects which will
> work on the Zaurus and with KDE.  It's important to get this commitment
> early, otherwise it won't happen.
>
> An example where such a commitment is lacking is the choice to go with
> Opera over Konqueror, or the proprietary SDK over KDevelop.  If the
> argument is, "Konqueror/KDevelop is not ready", then the question is,
> "What are you doing to help get it ready?"  I know Simon has been
> working hard on Konq-E and Ralf has been working hard to support Zaurus
> development with KDevelop -- who's paying for their efforts?

We are promoting eg. kdevelop. Ralf was at the amercan developer symposium 
and got a third of our presentation time there to talk about kdevelop and 
giving him booth space at the TT booth on the IWWW in San Jose. 

Trolltech is paying a quite a few developers to do open source development. 
Qt is available under the GPL, etc... You can't say Trolltech is not 
committed to open source.

Ciao,
Lars


> > And it's not that you loose your rights with submitting an entry. All
> > you do is grating the right to distribute and publish your entry.
> > And well, anyone disagreeing with that is likely not to be interested
> > in free software anyway ;)
>
> Ciao,
>
> Dre
>
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