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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: Qtopia Developer contest
From:       Vadim Plessky <lucy-ples () mtu-net ! ru>
Date:       2001-12-05 21:21:51
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On Wednesday 05 December 2001 07:49, Ralf Nolden wrote:
|   On Tuesday 04 December 2001 11:15, Andreas Pour wrote:
|
[...]
| contracts with. Why is that and can we change this and how can we change
| this ? (no secrets relvealed, just obvious thoughts)
|
|   1. Why: Sharp has been a hardware manufacturer for decades; all their
|   software was proprietary and mostly self-develped. The move to use Linux
| was a *MAYOR* switch in their software department for devices. That's why
| they went with Lineo instead of the familiar project and opera, basically

Ok, that's understandable, but frankly speaking, this is *Sharp's problem*.
*They* need to sell Zaurus'es, not we.
Sharp gave away market share (early 90's) to Casio, and end of 90's (when PDA 
market emerged) to Palm and later Compaq iPAQ.
They are late to PDA market. Probably, Linux is their last chance. They need 
help. Can we help them? Yes. But Sharp should be more open and cooperative in 
this case.
Please get me right: I don't want to say something bad about Sharp, and I 
think their product is *great*, but... KDE is VERY valuable product! (system, 
environment, etc. - whatever you call it).
IMHO KDE is the only system (environemnet, desktop, whatever) on the market 
which can challenge Microsoft dominance.
I full agree with Andreas Pour here - we should not trade off KDE for pure 
$10 000. $10K is a nice amount for one person, but what are the chances to 
win it? Not very high, let me say. There are (about) 400 KDE developers, may 
be even more nowdays, and if you just split amount among all of them - it 
will be close to nothing.
There are some parts of KDE which need enhancement, and we needed them 
*yesterday*. So IMO the best Sharp can do is to create 3-4 paid jobs - and I 
guess KDE community can determine who should go for those jobs.
As Adreas mentioned, JS needs enhancement, CSS needs some boost too.
KWord is nice (and usable), but KSpread and KPresenter are far away form 
being usable.
Creating paid jobs is pretty fair, IMO. Otherwise we just get unhappy people 
after announcing results of this competition - like "why XXX won those prize? 
my program is much better", etc.
I know this for sure - as I was participating in IBM KDE Theme Contest and 
won 3rd prize. Have you seen what people were telling about winners on 
dot.kde.org? That "all themes are crap, and I could do better in 10 minutes"  
BTW I even don't know wether IBM transfered money to KDE e.v. account (prize 
was charity donation). 

|
|   2. Can we change this ? A: yes. I proposed to hire one *independent* free
|   software advocate who understands the needs for a company to make money
| but on the other hand makes them understand that their contribution
| (besides using it) on the software side of linux is just a tipsy-tiny bit
| of the whole package of Linux. For instance, I would even say without the

Hiring *independent* free software advocate sounds quite reasonable.
But hiring 3-4 developers is much, MUCH better, IMO.
Let me remind what the situation was 1 year ago.
GNOME - everywhere (in press, interviews, etc.). KDE - in coding.
One year from that moment: GNOME 2.0 release slipped by one year, KDE team is 
preparing 3.0 release.

| commitment of Compaq for the iPaq, we would still lag behind on Linux on
| handhelds a *lot*. An independent software advocate with a liberal, open
| mind and the capability to communicate what free software is about and how
| to deal with it in certain ways would help both sides. It will take a while
| due to the reason mentioned in 1. but it will happen. The sharp commitment
| is very new and currently the success of the device is more important than
| detailed nagging about things IMHO (without to nag about the nagging :)) In
| the long run this will pay off more. Cooperations which don't work out will
| break up sooner or later. Which in this case would mean, that if the Zaurus
| wouldn't sell, Linux would be ditched, easy as pie, isn't it ? For us, the
| commitment to Linux *is* important in the first place and for it to
| continue, the thing has to get a success.

well, if Sharp gives away their PDAs - I would agree with you.
But with price tag of $500, it won't sell .. just because you can buy Compaq 
iPAQ/64MB  for $400 (I have checked here, it's available in METRO 
Cash&Carry, German famous retailer - www.metro.de)
I guess you would agree that it's pretty easy to wipe out WindowsCE from iPAQ 
and install Linux - and this will cost you $100 less.

I was doing a lot of Product Marketing in my life, managing several quite 
different products and product lines. A lot of good, I would say EXCELLENT 
products failed just because management was inadequate.
This in particluar includes Product Management, but also Financial 
Management, Logistics, Production are quite important.
And believe me, management in Japaneese companies is not the best one. So far 
American companies are leading in this competition. 
Just quess why Compaq iPAQ sells much, much better than Casio Cassiopeia 
(and, for people who don't know: iPAQ is re-labeled Cassiopea, it's produced 
by Casio). Because Compaq has better Marketing Team, wider Geographical 
presence (Coverage) and better Distribution Channel. Specs are *the same*.

|
|   3. How can we change this ? (I mean, from the side of KDE)
|   - *talk* to Sharp. This is also a job of the KDE League (in particular
| you
|   :)) to communicate with Sharp the benefits *from* KDE and what we could

Indeed, KDE League was invented for this. :-)

|
|   imagine to get back in an equal exchange. This requires building up trust
|   into our capabilities. I did my best here to demonstrate that KDE *is* a
|   leading force in desktop and application development plus the benefits of
|   being free Software, and the crosscompiling in KDevelop did its good
| share about that. It's things like that that impressed people to use Linux,
| when things *work*. If the don't or people are not satisfied, it just
| depends on the level of dissatisfaction how soon one will ditch your
| project or the support for it. Give them time and let's do our share in the
| meantime, because that's what we want to do, programming. We'll push, but
| push appropriate, kinda like IBM is moving Linux, slowly but effectively. A
| paintbrushed Linux ad by IBM on the streetcorners of San Francisco and the
| simple TV ad cause more slight little earthquakes who will not crush down
| proprietary systems in a second but weaken the construction over time.

IBM is supporting Linux because Linux increases their server sales. And 
servers mean *profit*.
No increase in server sales - no support for Linux.
I guess my words can cause some kind of disappointment for you, but that's 
just it.
BTW: note that IBM is not pushing Linux on desktop - neither KDE nor GNOME.
Why? Just because they see no profit on Desktop...
 
|
|   Remember: patience is your best friend in important times :))
|

Do not mix patience with *slowness* or *delayed reaction* :-))
And you always need to plan actions in advance.

[...]
|
|   About prefering Opera, the point is again, they are a corporation. Plus,
| the zooming feature is really something that konq/e lacks *badly*, if you
| ask me. We're still free to offer konq/e even if it's not distributed by
| default, plus we should make those people (at Sharp) *aware* that it's
| there, and have that above metioned Free Software/KDE advocate
| *communicate* that.

Com'on, what is the size of Opera? 10 people?...
Opera is not a big company. If Sharp needs company to talk to (which will 
offer them browser), I am ready to setup special company for that reason.
Costs of operation here are very low, I can definitly beat Opera (offering 
Konq/E or whatever), not speaking about Ximian.
Question is: what money Sharp paid to Opera?
Will this money be enough to create at least 3-4 paid KDE jobs? I don't know.
(I am speaking here not about company "to collect some money using OS 
projects", I guess we have *enough* examples of such companies, but a company 
which can talk to vensors like Sharp, get money from them and invest those 
money in paid developers jobs) 

|
|   So, the bottom line is that I think despite of all the corporate things
| going on, this is still the best tradeoff for now and now it's up to us to
| widen our respect that we will get as the right people to do the job by
| working, not discussing. Besides, my trip here has been paid by Trolltech
| and scheduled on the last minute. Plus Roland, Charles and Error403 are
| here to represent KDE besides me and we basically have a productive time :)

That's really good! :))
|
|   Ralf
|

-- 

Vadim Plessky
http://kde2.newmail.ru  (English)
33 Window Decorations and 6 Widget Styles for KDE
http://kde2.newmail.ru/kde_themes.html
KDE mini-Themes
http://kde2.newmail.ru/themes/
 
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