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List:       kde-debian
Subject:    Re: Control Center or separate application? Was: Kalternatives 0.2
From:       Simon Edwards <simon () simonzone ! com>
Date:       2004-01-03 1:52:34
Message-ID: 200401030250.22765.simon () simonzone ! com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 11:40 pm, Paul Mallach wrote:
> >> an HTML view that can include icons and text in a nice layout explaining 
> >> what the program launched by those icons do, very much
> >> like the Windows XP control center (which I think is very good, windows
> >> or not).
> I quite like that idea as well, but the Control Center is here right now 
> and won't go away.

True, and unless there is a lot of support about this idea from people inside 
KDE, then I think we can safely put this idea to the side for now. 
Fortunately distros like ArkLinux are trying this out. Sooner or later it 
will get its 15 minutes of fame. :-) and maybe convince a few people. (or 
just plain suck).

> I'm quite certain, that it will be reworked for next 3.3  
> release of KDE in one way or the other.

it must be.

> Even though I can't see who would reimplement the existing kcmodules, this 
> feature request is interesting: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71631

It is those kinds of things that I anticipate that distros will want to do 
with the admin tools.

The kind of integration requested there can only really be done at the code 
level. i.e. changing KCM code. 

> I think these are our options:
> * create a separate container application that contains only our new
>   modules to complenent the CC

Lacks integration, poor usability. (but I think you realise this).

> * keep control center as it is and include our modules in it + needs a 
> change in CC, so that python modules will alway be
>     loaded out of the parent process
>   - at this time limited to python / c++

Actually, you would probably mark certain modules as being out-of-process. It 
wouldn't be python specific per se.

>   - hard to include kuser/... (maybe create a dummy kcmodule that
>     simply spawn the external app)

Replace kuser. :) I've got something already in mind.

> Personlly I think it would be best to stay compatible to CC with all newly 
> created modules and help to fix the problems with the current CC if the 
> current maintainer is willing to accept patches.

I agreed. We should aim to extend CC with modules written in python (not 
trying to exclude other languages, but hey, we can't do everything at once.) 
This makes the most sense work-wise, and also it doesn't radically depart 
from the core KDE.

Cleaning up the usability aspects of CC is going to have to done post 3.2 and 
also 'closer' to the main KDE project. Probably on the kde-usability list. 
From my experience on kde-usability is that the CC is very hard to change 
because so many people have so many opinions, and because removing options 
and functionality is very difficult; people just can't let go. Anyway, we 
should concentrate on admin tools first.

> Maybe someone should contact the Control Center maintainer 
> molkentin@kde.org and
> ask him, what his plans are and if he would accept patches that make the 
> big changes that are required. I'm not quite sure, where these should be 
> discussed
> (kde-usability?)

I'll get in touch with Jim Bublitz first, the guy behind PyKDE, just as a 
sanity check to make sure that I've got my facts right concerning 
python+kcontrol modules. Then we can discuss our wishes with the CC 
maintainer.

> A new container  
> application developed with python could serve as a proof of concept.

Developing a new container should be seen as a last resort. Unless of course 
your aim is to create a container that looks and acts completely different 
than the current one.

> when it comes to system configuration I think that a lot of people are 
> quite knowledgeable with scripting languages AND system 
> configuration/management
> but are not so well versed in C++.

my thoughts too.

Paul, what your personal thoughts on which tools you would like to 
'integrated'? What are the main areas we need to cover?

cheers, good night all,

-- 
Simon Edwards             | Guarddog Firewall
simon@simonzone.com       | http://www.simonzone.com/software/
Nijmegen, The Netherlands | "ZooTV? You made the right choice."

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