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List:       kde-core-devel
Subject:    Re: Proposal: package split
From:       Harri Porten <porten () tu-harburg ! de>
Date:       1999-10-03 15:42:38
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Rik Hemsley wrote:
> 
> Counter-argument:
> 
> There are three mail clients in CVS. KMail, KMail2 and Empath.

A good example for discussing this topic.

> I'm trying to integrate mail, news and addressbook. You're suggesting we
> keep them as separate entities ? I want to be able to search through all
> of these via kfind, and compose messages from within KWord.

Are you suggesting to unite Empath, kdebase (kfind) and koffice (KWord)
to one big package ? ;) How about other apps that may want to share the
addressbook ?
I would suggest solving such issues by letting the app moan "Hey ! If
you want to search trough the messages you'd better install kfind or
something that offers similar functionality if you don't like kfind."
If apps are so deeply entwined that they can't be seperated they should
stay in one package. Sure.

> A _lot_ of planning has been done for KabII, and the implementation is
> now working, save some problems with kded.

Looking forward to it.

> Empath is not going to compete with e.g. Magellan from a UI point of view for
> a while, so if it was a separate client, no-one would use it.
> 
> Users don't understand that having a Maildir based client that doesn't stall
> the UI is to their advantage. They'll use whatever has pixmap backgrounds
> and extra 'features'.

I don't know Magellan but I'd say: the better program has to compete ny
its merits and not by forcing it on anyone. There are surely users in
love with e.g. kmail. Why take it away from them as long someone makes
sure it compiles ?

> After nearly a year of writing Empath, during which I have published my
> proposal for the whole PIM thing, have written a comprehensive document
> for programmers describing exactly how the complex internals work,
> giving a useful introduction to how to code for it, and carefully documented
> the API, I have received a total of six patches from two different people.

Mmmmh. That's a pitty but proves my point: Empath didn't get enough
attention cause everyone encountered kmail first as it was part of an
"official" package. I'd love to give every competitor the same
treatment.

> If there were more people actually working on these IMO important things,
> rather than separate projects to produce yet another standalone client
> then perhaps we'd get somewhere.

In the past many IDE projects were started. Imagine the kdevelop guys
getting so frustrated by all these "Oh no. Yet another IDE" comments
that they stopped working on their project. *You* worked on Empath
although there was another mail client.
I'm not saying that cooperation and deep integration is bad. It's just
that I fail to see the reason why somebody gets ksirc if he just wanted
kbiff (->kdenetwork).

> Just my 0.02 euro. I know that programmers will always work on what they want
> to, and I'm not saying Empath and KabII are the best designed apps on the
> planet. Programmers also tend to like to start new projects - they know
> the code better that way. Why another news client is being written, though,
> I have no idea. Empath is designed to handle news and the hooks to put
> the support in are already there.

Perhaps there is some irony in this comment I fail to see. Why did you
start Empath although pine, elm, kmail, Netscape, XFMail and others were
already there ? Microsoft is wondering why some Austrian guy is so crazy
to develop a new word processor although Winword offers every feature
one can think of.

Anyway. Thanks for your comments, waiting for your program (didn't
compile each time I tried).

Harri.

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