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List: kde-community
Subject: Re: [announcement] Telegram bridging to be retired Wed. 20 Sept. | 5 to-dos
From: Valorie Zimmerman <valorie.zimmerman () gmail ! com>
Date: 2023-08-23 20:14:25
Message-ID: CACpu0254KYCr4ngBiV7Bu2ufLSuMSjN-2L_B=egn+wy9h=24mQ () mail ! gmail ! com
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My response is interspersed.
On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 9:51 AM Paul Brown <paul.brown@kde.org> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 23 August 2023 17:04:04 CEST Ingo Klöcker wrote:
> > On Mittwoch, 23. August 2023 16:55:25 CEST Niccolò Ve wrote:
> > > > Postponing the deadline is not ideal, since there always will be
> people
> > > > jumping out saying "Why wasn't I told" "Was it discussed before"
> again
> > > > and again.
> > >
> > > Please note that the community was never told about this decision
> before
> > > yesterday, and it was never discussed publicly.
> >
> > https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-community/2023q2/007656.html
>
> That link is denouncing the very thing, that all this was going on without
> the
> wider community's knowledge . It hardly counts as an official announcement.
>
> Besides, you have to stop assuming that because you published something
> once
> on some internal outlet, you are covered.
>
I have two hats on here - my KDE hat and my Kubuntu hat. The Kubuntu Tg
channel (and IRC chan for that matter) are linked to the KDE infra in
various ways. I don't know the tech details but I was an early Tg adopter
years ago because it was the only thing that worked for real time
communication one Akademy. I have since removed it from my phone.
>
> The people this is going to affect most (i.e. the Telegram end users)
> don't
> read mailing lists or know what a BoF is. Most people who are using our
> apps
> and are discussing them on Telegram are barely off of Whatsapp and
> probably
> don't even know what KDE is.
>
YES. I do mostly genealogy these days, and most people I interact with do
not know (or have forgotten) what mail lists are. Of course I continue to
love them, as I do IRC. But I don't use either one on my phone. I'm old
enough that I don't care to use my phone for most things that younger folks
want to do or have no other option. I never was able to get Matrix working
right on my phone, and never even tried on my new one. IRC is awesome on my
laptops; matrix never worked well there either, so I stopped trying. There
is not enough time in life for everything.
>
> But they are your users. They are the ones you can ask to donate when you
> need
> resources to carry on developing your project, they make up the numbers
> we
> can quote when we want to convince would-be sponsors, they are the
> "everyone"
> mentioned in KDE's vision.
>
Please let's listen to Paul. He is bringing the voices of those otherwise
nameless users whom we NEED into this conversation. To cut off many
hundreds of thousands of users seems like slow suicide to me to KDE as a
project.
>
> I am always surprised on occasions like this of how little some people
> here
> care. Other projects would be over the Moon to have this user base, but
> here
> it seems like it is perfectly okay to cut hundreds of users off completely
> because of a technical issue.
>
> Very puzzling.
>
More than puzzling, it is distressing. What is the point of creating
awesome software if we are going to cut adrift hundreds of thousands of
users with a tenuous connection to us?
Valorie, ex-CWG and still connected through the GSoC admin team and Kubuntu
PS: Cutting off the Kubuntu Tg chans/rooms is just fine.
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
> --
> Promotion & Communication
>
> www: https://kde.org
> Mastodon: https://floss.social/@kde
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/
> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kde
>
--
she/her. "Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself
running with them." - Marcus Aurelius
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr"><div>My response is interspersed.</div><div><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 9:51 AM Paul Brown <<a \
href="mailto:paul.brown@kde.org">paul.brown@kde.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><div \
class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Wednesday, 23 \
August 2023 17:04:04 CEST Ingo Klöcker wrote:<br> > On Mittwoch, 23. August 2023 \
16:55:25 CEST Niccolò Ve wrote:<br> > > > Postponing the deadline is not \
ideal, since there always will be people<br> > > > jumping out saying \
"Why wasn't I told" "Was it discussed before" again<br> > \
> > and again.<br> > > <br>
> > Please note that the community was never told about this decision \
before<br> > > yesterday, and it was never discussed publicly.<br>
> <br>
> <a href="https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-community/2023q2/007656.html" \
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-community/2023q2/007656.html</a><br>
<br>
That link is denouncing the very thing, that all this was going on without the <br>
wider community's knowledge . It hardly counts as an official announcement.<br>
<br>
Besides, you have to stop assuming that because you published something once <br>
on some internal outlet, you are covered.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I have \
two hats on here - my KDE hat and my Kubuntu hat. The Kubuntu Tg channel (and IRC \
chan for that matter) are linked to the KDE infra in various ways. I don't know \
the tech details but I was an early Tg adopter years ago because it was the only \
thing that worked for real time communication one Akademy. I have since removed it \
from my phone. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <br>
The people this is going to affect most (i.e. the Telegram end users) don't <br>
read mailing lists or know what a BoF is. Most people who are using our apps <br>
and are discussing them on Telegram are barely off of Whatsapp and probably <br>
don't even know what KDE is.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>YES. I do mostly \
genealogy these days, and most people I interact with do not know (or have forgotten) \
what mail lists are. Of course I continue to love them, as I do IRC. But I don't \
use either one on my phone. I'm old enough that I don't care to use my phone \
for most things that younger folks want to do or have no other option. I never was \
able to get Matrix working right on my phone, and never even tried on my new one. IRC \
is awesome on my laptops; matrix never worked well there either, so I stopped trying. \
There is not enough time in life for everything.</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <br>
But they are your users. They are the ones you can ask to donate when you need <br>
resources to carry on developing your project, they make up the numbers we <br>
can quote when we want to convince would-be sponsors, they are the \
"everyone" <br> mentioned in KDE's \
vision.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Please let's listen to Paul. He is \
bringing the voices of those otherwise nameless users whom we NEED into this \
conversation. To cut off many hundreds of thousands of users seems like slow suicide \
to me to KDE as a project. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px \
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <br>
I am always surprised on occasions like this of how little some people here <br>
care. Other projects would be over the Moon to have this user base, but here <br>
it seems like it is perfectly okay to cut hundreds of users off completely <br>
because of a technical issue.<br>
<br>
Very puzzling.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>More than puzzling, it is \
distressing. What is the point of creating awesome software if we are going to cut \
adrift hundreds of thousands of users with a tenuous connection to \
us?</div><div><br></div><div>Valorie, ex-CWG and still connected through the GSoC \
admin team and Kubuntu </div><div><br></div><div>PS: Cutting off the Kubuntu Tg \
chans/rooms is just fine.</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px \
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
-- <br>
Promotion & Communication<br>
<br>
www: <a href="https://kde.org" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">https://kde.org</a><br>
Mastodon: <a href="https://floss.social/@kde" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">https://floss.social/@kde</a><br>
Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/kde/" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/kde/</a><br>
Twitter: <a href="https://twitter.com/kdecommunity" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">https://twitter.com/kdecommunity</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/kde" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/company/kde</a><br></blockquote></div><div><br></div><span \
class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" \
class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>she/her. "Dwell on the beauty of \
life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them." - Marcus \
Aurelius</div></div></div></div>
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