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List: kde-community
Subject: Re: Formal request to set up a KDE Discourse instance
From: Eike Hein <hein () kde ! org>
Date: 2021-02-24 0:34:00
Message-ID: F87AAE16-F695-439E-AB2A-DEA5FCE4E4F0 () kde ! org
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Hey,
This all sounds much too confrontational :-). Come on everyone, we can do this much \
better.
Ben, I don't think Nate's request implies prioritization. For folks outside a \
particular team it can be difficult to follow what the team has on their plate at the \
moment; you probably also wouldn't know the same about Nate's VDG/QA space.
Everyone knows that sysadmin is working hard all the time, but it has to still be \
possible to do roadmap planning. In fact it's one of the best ways to avoid getting \
overcommitted in the future. Declaring a goal and/or agreeing to work on it in the \
abstract doesn't mean it has to be done straight away or rushed, but it e.g. allows \
attracting contributors to the goal to get the work done, as also seen in the thread \
already.
The idea of adopting Discourse as a replacement for the old forums has been around \
for a number of years, and I would say it's probably become more compelling with \
time. KDE Forums hasn't seen a lot of work and Discourse has risen 8n popularity and \
familiarity. It's at least worth investigating with an open mind now. If the \
investigation finds road blocks (capacity, technical, others) we can discuss them \
further - constructively, without being strangely afraid others will make decisions \
without them. The only way that happens is by not communicating.
I would suggest making a rough proposal on what this really means operationally. How \
would we migrate, how would we sundown, what sort of work would Discourse need, what \
sort of setup and infra are required. Sysadmin should ideally provide input there \
based on experience, implementation policy, etc. Then we know what we need, what we \
don't have, and what we think we should do about it.
Cheers,
Eike
On February 24, 2021 1:21:14 AM GMT+01:00, Nate Graham <nate@kde.org> wrote:
> On 2/23/21 4:07 PM, Nate Graham wrote:
> > On 2/23/21 3:53 PM, Ben Cooksley wrote:
> > > May I take this as a formal request from yourself that Gitlab CI is
> > > deprioritised and delayed?
> > >
> > > Based on the extremely frequent requests we get concerning it in
> > > #kde-sysadmin I am not sure if your request here is in line with
> > > general community consensus.
> > >
> > > Also, be aware that Sysadmin currently has other infrastructure level
> > > projects underway needed to get us off Ubuntu 16.04, which are
> > > currently delayed because we haven't had anyone volunteer to assist us
> > > with adding support for OAuth2/MyKDE to Reimbursements.
> > > Based on the above, I assume you are also requesting that we delay
> > > this, and accept the corresponding security issues that will accompany
> > > it when Ubuntu 16.04 loses support in the coming months in order to
> > > get this actioned?
> >
> > Hmm, I don't see where I suggested any of those things.
> >
> > If you folks are really that overloaded, we need to figure out how to
> > fix that. A workload that exceeds available resources doesn't help
> > anyone. The last time this came up, people called for additional
> > volunteers to assist. Did that end up bearing any fruit?
>
> Anyway I apologize if my tone was off. I wasn't meaning to accuse
> sysadmins of anything, and I guess I didn't realize how overloaded the
> team is right now.
>
> That being what it is, perhaps a more productive line of discussion
> would be to ask: "what do you need from us so that these things that
> need to happen, and that we all want, can reach fruition faster?" You
> don't have to suffer in silence! :)
>
> Nate
>
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<html><head></head><body>Hey,<br><br>This all sounds much too confrontational :-). \
Come on everyone, we can do this much better.<br><br>Ben, I don't think Nate's \
request implies prioritization. For folks outside a particular team it can be \
difficult to follow what the team has on their plate at the moment; you probably also \
wouldn't know the same about Nate's VDG/QA space. <br><br>Everyone knows that \
sysadmin is working hard all the time, but it has to still be possible to do roadmap \
planning. In fact it's one of the best ways to avoid getting overcommitted in the \
future. Declaring a goal and/or agreeing to work on it in the abstract doesn't mean \
it has to be done straight away or rushed, but it e.g. allows attracting contributors \
to the goal to get the work done, as also seen in the thread already.<br><br>The idea \
of adopting Discourse as a replacement for the old forums has been around for a \
number of years, and I would say it's probably become more compelling with time. KDE \
Forums hasn't seen a lot of work and Discourse has risen 8n popularity and \
familiarity. It's at least worth investigating with an open mind now. If the \
investigation finds road blocks (capacity, technical, others) we can discuss them \
further - constructively, without being strangely afraid others will make decisions \
without them. The only way that happens is by not communicating.<br><br>I would \
suggest making a rough proposal on what this really means operationally. How would we \
migrate, how would we sundown, what sort of work would Discourse need, what sort of \
setup and infra are required. Sysadmin should ideally provide input there based on \
experience, implementation policy, etc. Then we know what we need, what we don't \
have, and what we think we should do about \
it.<br><br><br><br>Cheers,<br>Eike<br><br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On \
February 24, 2021 1:21:14 AM GMT+01:00, Nate Graham <nate@kde.org> \
wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: \
1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> <pre dir="auto" class="k9mail">On \
2/23/21 4:07 PM, Nate Graham wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: \
0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;">On 2/23/21 \
3:53 PM, Ben Cooksley wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt \
0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"> May I take this \
as a formal request from yourself that Gitlab CI is <br> deprioritised and \
delayed?<br><br> Based on the extremely frequent requests we get concerning it in \
<br> #kde-sysadmin I am not sure if your request here is in line with <br> general \
community consensus.<br><br> Also, be aware that Sysadmin currently has other \
infrastructure level <br> projects underway needed to get us off Ubuntu 16.04, which \
are <br> currently delayed because we haven't had anyone volunteer to assist us <br> \
with adding support for OAuth2/MyKDE to Reimbursements.<br> Based on the above, I \
assume you are also requesting that we delay <br> this, and accept the corresponding \
security issues that will accompany <br> it when Ubuntu 16.04 loses support in the \
coming months in order to <br> get this actioned?<br></blockquote><br>Hmm, I don't \
see where I suggested any of those things.<br><br>If you folks are really that \
overloaded, we need to figure out how to <br>fix that. A workload that exceeds \
available resources doesn't help <br>anyone. The last time this came up, people \
called for additional <br>volunteers to assist. Did that end up bearing any \
fruit?<br></blockquote><br>Anyway I apologize if my tone was off. I wasn't meaning to \
accuse <br>sysadmins of anything, and I guess I didn't realize how overloaded the \
<br>team is right now.<br><br>That being what it is, perhaps a more productive line \
of discussion <br>would be to ask: "what do you need from us so that these things \
that <br>need to happen, and that we all want, can reach fruition faster?" You \
<br>don't have to suffer in silence! \
:)<br><br>Nate<br><br></pre></blockquote></div><br><div class='k9mail-signature'>-- \
<br>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my \
brevity.</div></body></html>
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