From kde-community Wed Feb 24 00:34:00 2021 From: Eike Hein Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 00:34:00 +0000 To: kde-community Subject: Re: Formal request to set up a KDE Discourse instance Message-Id: X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-community&m=161412687415611 MIME-Version: 1 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------TBLTA3C8QF3F4MKX79UTYCCMSPPQR8" ------TBLTA3C8QF3F4MKX79UTYCCMSPPQR8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey, This all sounds much too confrontational :-)=2E Come on everyone, we can d= o this much better=2E Ben, I don't think Nate's request implies prioritization=2E For folks outs= ide a particular team it can be difficult to follow what the team has on th= eir plate at the moment; you probably also wouldn't know the same about Nat= e's VDG/QA space=2E=20 Everyone knows that sysadmin is working hard all the time, but it has to s= till be possible to do roadmap planning=2E In fact it's one of the best way= s to avoid getting overcommitted in the future=2E Declaring a goal and/or a= greeing to work on it in the abstract doesn't mean it has to be done straig= ht away or rushed, but it e=2Eg=2E allows attracting contributors to the go= al to get the work done, as also seen in the thread already=2E The idea of adopting Discourse as a replacement for the old forums has bee= n around for a number of years, and I would say it's probably become more c= ompelling with time=2E KDE Forums hasn't seen a lot of work and Discourse h= as risen 8n popularity and familiarity=2E It's at least worth investigating= with an open mind now=2E If the investigation finds road blocks (capacity,= technical, others) we can discuss them further - constructively, without b= eing strangely afraid others will make decisions without them=2E The only w= ay that happens is by not communicating=2E I would suggest making a rough proposal on what this really means operatio= nally=2E How would we migrate, how would we sundown, what sort of work woul= d Discourse need, what sort of setup and infra are required=2E Sysadmin sho= uld ideally provide input there based on experience, implementation policy,= etc=2E Then we know what we need, what we don't have, and what we think we= should do about it=2E Cheers, Eike On February 24, 2021 1:21:14 AM GMT+01:00, Nate Graham wr= ote: >On 2/23/21 4:07 PM, Nate Graham wrote: >> On 2/23/21 3:53 PM, Ben Cooksley wrote: >>> May I take this as a formal request from yourself that Gitlab CI is=20 >>> deprioritised and delayed? >>> >>> Based on the extremely frequent requests we get concerning it in=20 >>> #kde-sysadmin I am not sure if your request here is in line with=20 >>> general community consensus=2E >>> >>> Also, be aware that Sysadmin currently has other infrastructure level= =20 >>> projects underway needed to get us off Ubuntu 16=2E04, which are=20 >>> currently delayed because we haven't had anyone volunteer to assist us= =20 >>> with adding support for OAuth2/MyKDE to Reimbursements=2E >>> Based on the above, I assume you are also requesting that we delay=20 >>> this, and accept the corresponding security issues that will accompany= =20 >>> it when Ubuntu 16=2E04 loses support in the coming months in order to= =20 >>> get this actioned? >>=20 >> Hmm, I don't see where I suggested any of those things=2E >>=20 >> If you folks are really that overloaded, we need to figure out how to= =20 >> fix that=2E A workload that exceeds available resources doesn't help=20 >> anyone=2E The last time this came up, people called for additional=20 >> volunteers to assist=2E Did that end up bearing any fruit? > >Anyway I apologize if my tone was off=2E I wasn't meaning to accuse=20 >sysadmins of anything, and I guess I didn't realize how overloaded the=20 >team is right now=2E > >That being what it is, perhaps a more productive line of discussion=20 >would be to ask: "what do you need from us so that these things that=20 >need to happen, and that we all want, can reach fruition faster?" You=20 >don't have to suffer in silence! :) > >Nate > --=20 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E ------TBLTA3C8QF3F4MKX79UTYCCMSPPQR8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey,

This all sounds much too confrontation= al :-)=2E Come on everyone, we can do this much better=2E

Ben, I don= 't think Nate's request implies prioritization=2E For folks outside a parti= cular team it can be difficult to follow what the team has on their plate a= t the moment; you probably also wouldn't know the same about Nate's VDG/QA = space=2E

Everyone knows that sysadmin is working hard all the time,= but it has to still be possible to do roadmap planning=2E In fact it's one= of the best ways to avoid getting overcommitted in the future=2E Declaring= a goal and/or agreeing to work on it in the abstract doesn't mean it has t= o be done straight away or rushed, but it e=2Eg=2E allows attracting contri= butors to the goal to get the work done, as also seen in the thread already= =2E

The idea of adopting Discourse as a replacement for the old foru= ms has been around for a number of years, and I would say it's probably bec= ome more compelling with time=2E KDE Forums hasn't seen a lot of work and D= iscourse has risen 8n popularity and familiarity=2E It's at least worth inv= estigating with an open mind now=2E If the investigation finds road blocks = (capacity, technical, others) we can discuss them further - constructively,= without being strangely afraid others will make decisions without them=2E = The only way that happens is by not communicating=2E

I would suggest= making a rough proposal on what this really means operationally=2E How wou= ld we migrate, how would we sundown, what sort of work would Discourse need= , what sort of setup and infra are required=2E Sysadmin should ideally prov= ide input there based on experience, implementation policy, etc=2E Then we = know what we need, what we don't have, and what we think we should do about= it=2E



Cheers,
Eike




On February 24, 2021 1:21:14 AM GMT+01:00, Nate Graham <nate@kd= e=2Eorg> wrote:
On 2/23/21 4:07 PM, Nate Graham wrote:<=
br>
On 2/23/21 3:53 PM, Ben=
 Cooksley wrote:
 May I=
 take this as a formal request from yourself that Gitlab CI is 
 deprior=
itised and delayed?

 Based on the extremely frequent requests we get=
 concerning it in 
 #kde-sysadmin I am not sure if your request here is =
in line with 
 general community consensus=2E

 Also, be aware tha=
t Sysadmin currently has other infrastructure level 
 projects underway =
needed to get us off Ubuntu 16=2E04, which are 
 currently delayed becau=
se we haven't had anyone volunteer to assist us 
 with adding support fo=
r OAuth2/MyKDE to Reimbursements=2E
 Based on the above, I assume you ar=
e also requesting that we delay 
 this, and accept the corresponding sec=
urity issues that will accompany 
 it when Ubuntu 16=2E04 loses support =
in the coming months in order to 
 get this actioned?
Hmm, I don't see where I suggested any of those things=2E

If you f=
olks are really that overloaded, we need to figure out how to 
fix that=
=2E A workload that exceeds available resources doesn't help 
anyone=2E =
The last time this came up, people called for additional 
volunteers to =
assist=2E Did that end up bearing any fruit?

Anyway I a=
pologize if my tone was off=2E I wasn't meaning to accuse 
sysadmins of =
anything, and I guess I didn't realize how overloaded the 
team is right=
 now=2E

That being what it is, perhaps a more productive line of dis=
cussion 
would be to ask: "what do you need from us so that these things=
 that 
need to happen, and that we all want, can reach fruition faster?"=
 You 
don't have to suffer in silence! :)

Nate


--
Sent from my Andro= id device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E
------TBLTA3C8QF3F4MKX79UTYCCMSPPQR8--