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List: kde-community
Subject: Re: [kde-community] A new home for Mozilla Thunderbird at KDE?
From: Laszlo Papp <lpapp () kde ! org>
Date: 2016-04-26 19:02:05
Message-ID: CAOMwXhM7dbwYyzF4V6RNjjhvoTHPbLKxOmfX+iD=qBbHWgpy-g () mail ! gmail ! com
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Dear Eike,
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 7:33 PM, Eike Hein <hein@kde.org> wrote:
>
>
> On 04/27/2016 03:20 AM, Laszlo Papp wrote:
>
>> Given how respected, appreciated and well-used Thunderbird has been in
>> my experience, including industrial environments (only dream for certain
>> KDE subprojects?), I would suggest having a bit more good faith at this
>> point. Such early conclusions have been brought up about the Qt
>> framework as well after the Nokia decline. I am now being told that the
>> Qt business has been doing really well instead.
>>
>
> I'm not saying Thunderbird doesn't have users at present. I'm
> saying its usage numbers have failed to translate to a revenue
> stream or an excess of manpower; problems severe enough its
> original parent organization has struggled to keep it going.
>
* As I know, there was some decline in the payment of Kubuntu developer(s)
by Canonical, too.
* KO Gmbh could not continue its operation either as hoped for.
* How about the business behind Plasma Mobile that AS was trying to
establish?
(This is really not about blaming any of the participants. I am really
happy and grateful that they have all tried to do their best for this
community!)
These are just three examples of those that I am aware of. I could provide
more if needed, but I am not sure revenue defines a KDE project or some
support withdrawn behind a project. It is in my understanding neither in
the manifesto, nor the vision.
I would even go further claiming that many (most?) KDE projects have never
made it to that level, so for me, Thunderbird as a project is something to
look upon even if it is currently having issues to be resolved.
On top of that, it's facing immense technological challenges in
> the relatively near future that will make it harder, not easier
> to develop further.
>
> Thunderbird joining KDE.org would require us to invest
> resources (monetary, but also the time and motivation of e.g.
> our sysadmins and our board). Can we recoup those? Why us if
> others could not?
>
Would it be possible for you to give a rough estimate with concrete numbers
so that we can better understand the impact?
As I know, a couple of years ago, the sysadmins were processing the
infrastructure set up quite quickly. They had done an excellent job at this.
I understand your concern of for instance migrating bugreports, but do they
really have to be, at least right away?
I believe the monetary issues could be discussed for KDE as a whole. I am
not sure that they are only relevant for one or two particular subprojects.
For instance, Thunderbird could also do its own fundraising relying on the
success of that to a great extent.
(By the way, I am now writing writing these lines as a non-thunderbird user
before claiming any bias. I am still a happy mutt user. :-) )
Best Regards,
Laszlo Papp
> Best Regards,
>> Laszlo Papp
>>
>
> Cheers,
> Eike
> _______________________________________________
> kde-community mailing list
> kde-community@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr">Dear Eike,<br><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div \
class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 7:33 PM, Eike Hein <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:hein@kde.org" target="_blank">hein@kde.org</a>></span> \
wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span class=""><br> \
<br> On 04/27/2016 03:20 AM, Laszlo Papp wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> Given how respected, appreciated and well-used \
Thunderbird has been in<br> my experience, including industrial environments (only \
dream for certain<br> KDE subprojects?), I would suggest having a bit more good faith \
at this<br> point. Such early conclusions have been brought up about the Qt<br>
framework as well after the Nokia decline. I am now being told that the<br>
Qt business has been doing really well instead.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
I'm not saying Thunderbird doesn't have users at present. I'm<br>
saying its usage numbers have failed to translate to a revenue<br>
stream or an excess of manpower; problems severe enough its<br>
original parent organization has struggled to keep it \
going.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>* As I know, there was some decline in the \
payment of Kubuntu developer(s) by Canonical, too.<br><br>* KO Gmbh could not \
continue its operation either as hoped for.<br><br></div><div>* How about the \
business behind Plasma Mobile that AS was trying to \
establish?<br></div><div><br></div><div>(This is really not about blaming any of the \
participants. I am really happy and grateful that they have all tried to do their \
best for this community!)<br></div><div><br></div><div>These are just three examples \
of those that I am aware of. I could provide more if needed, but I am not sure \
revenue defines a KDE project or some support withdrawn behind a project. It is in my \
understanding neither in the manifesto, nor the vision.<br><br></div><div>I would \
even go further claiming that many (most?) KDE projects have never made it to that \
level, so for me, Thunderbird as a project is something to look upon even if it is \
currently having issues to be resolved.<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> On top of that, it's facing immense \
technological challenges in<br> the relatively near future that will make it harder, \
not easier<br> to develop further.<br>
<br>
Thunderbird joining KDE.org would require us to invest<br>
resources (monetary, but also the time and motivation of e.g.<br>
our sysadmins and our board). Can we recoup those? Why us if<br>
others could not?<span class="im"><br></span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Would \
it be possible for you to give a rough estimate with concrete numbers so that we can \
better understand the impact?<br><br></div><div>As I know, a couple of years ago, the \
sysadmins were processing the infrastructure set up quite quickly. They had done an \
excellent job at this.<br><br>I understand your concern of for instance migrating \
bugreports, but do they really have to be, at least right away?<br><br></div><div>I \
believe the monetary issues could be discussed for KDE as a whole. I am not sure that \
they are only relevant for one or two particular subprojects.<br><br>For instance, \
Thunderbird could also do its own fundraising relying on the success of that to a \
great extent.<br></div><div><br>(By the way, I am now writing writing these lines as \
a non-thunderbird user before claiming any bias. I am still a happy mutt user. :-) \
)<br><br></div><div>Best Regards,<br></div><div>Laszlo \
Papp<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px \
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span class="im"> \
<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px \
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> Best Regards,<br>
Laszlo Papp<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Cheers,<br></span><div class=""><div class="h5">
Eike<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
kde-community mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:kde-community@kde.org" target="_blank">kde-community@kde.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community</a></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
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