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List:       kde-commits
Subject:    Re: kdelibs/kio/kfile
From:       "Aaron J. Seigo" <aseigo () olympusproject ! org>
Date:       2002-07-02 15:05:44
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On Tuesday 02 July 2002 01:35, Carsten Pfeiffer wrote:
> On Tuesday 02 July 2002 03:53, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > o the sheer number of widgets visible, which increases visual noise in
> > the dialog and removes usable space from the path combobox
>
> You say, people use the mkdir-button more often, so you made it more
> visible (it didn't take any valuable toolbar space before). Do you have any
> statistics on that? :-)

ask around ... but the point isn't even that it is used _more_ than the view 
buttons (which it seems to be), but that it is used often and doesn't fit 
topically with the rest of the items in the menu making it more difficult to 
find and learn when it is in that menu. 

this configuration uses less toolbar space *and* is consistent compared to 
what was there before.

> I for one don't. And if you compare that with our *filemanager*, you will
> see, there is no mkdir button either, but there are toolbar buttons to
> switch views.

our filemanager is a view shell, not a file dialog used by applications for 
saving and opening files.

> Ok, but how often do you hide the sidebar? I would think, you either use
> it, or you don't. But you don't toggle it often, because the only advantage

well, actually, i do toggle it often. but i'm not really the point here ;-)

> to hiding it, is more space for the other view. There is no functional
> advantage, that different views have, for example.

there is exactly the same type of functional advantage, and more importantly: 
now the user can know that all dialog view configuration options are in one 
button menu that is labelled with the standard KDE configuration icon. this 
consistency is critical.

if it were a regular application, we could have a menu bar and a toolbar and 
keep the most commonly used items from that menu out on the toolbar. but it 
isn't. this dialog needs to be kept consistent and clear in a relatively 
small amount of space.

> > o on the toolbar they only have icons (tooltips don't count ;). in the
> > menu they have text labels, which improves clarity and by extension
> > learnability.
>
> So the mkdir button is unclear and hard to learn now? :-] The

it has the "new directory" button, which is more common than the "preview" 
button in kde. in fact, users will come across "new <something>" icons in 
just about every single KDE application.

ask people what the new directory icon means, then ask them what the preview 
button or detailed list icons mean and watch the difference in understanding.

> view-switching buttons are already known from Konqueror, so there is no new
> learning necessary.

asuming people learn it in konqueror. it seems many don't, probably because 
they don't switch views all that often and/or they use the menus to do so.

> > in any case, toggling previews has a keyboard shortcut (F10). switching
> > views could also be given F'keys (6 and 7 to keep things in order?) ...
> > perhaps this is the solution since this would allow quick access to all
> > of those items?
>
> F6 is already taken.

i can't seem to find anything connected to F6. what is it used for?

> And I'm afraid, people won't remember 5 shortcuts for
> toggling/hiding different widgets of a dialog.

no, but they'll be able to learn the one(s) for their favourite toggles. and 
they'll all be "in a row" (F6 - F10) making for a fairly linear set.

- -- 
Aaron J. Seigo
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler"
    - Albert Einstein
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