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List:       kde-bugs-dist
Subject:    [Bug 53682] usability: toolbar layout and buttons
From:       William Leese <yatsu () wanadoo ! nl>
Date:       2003-02-01 9:19:04
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http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53682     




------- Additional Comments From yatsu@wanadoo.nl  2003-02-01 10:18 -------
Subject: Re:  usability: toolbar layout and buttons

Neil Stevens wrote:
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>      
> http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53682     
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------- Additional Comments From neil@qualityassistant.com  2003-02-01 10:00 -------
> Subject: Re:  usability: toolbar layout and buttons
> 
> On Friday January 31, 2003 09:23, William Leese wrote:
> ...
> 
>>>>Toolbars. The quit button needs to go because users do not expect it
>>>>there. More importantly the well known big "X" and File->Quit methods
>>>>are available for quiting the application.
>>>
>>>You sure?  What about the people who hide menu bars? (see below)
>>
>>I'm very, very sure on this one. Please remove this in favour of the
>>traditional "X" which is available at all times except fullscreen mode.
> 
> The icon is not controlled by Kaboodle, sorry.  It's just a standard 
> action.  So if you want an X as the icon, switch icon styles.

I'm not talking about the icon. I meant the close button in the titlebar.

> 
>>>And the answer isn't to dynamically hide and remove GUI elements. 
>>>Making it so that the user doesn't know what will be in the toolbar
>>>when just makes things harder on the user.
>>
>>You're right. I can agree with not removing the functionality. How about
>>moving it to the same toolbar as "Fullscreen" instead? This would
>>somewhat minimize accidential clickage..
> 
> Even if I saw a connection between the two, that wouldn't be possible.  
> Erect a mental wall between Kaboodle and the Video Toolbar.  The Video 
> Toolbar is in its own world.  Kaboodle is just embedding that widget.  
> Sorry.

If I understand correctly this is purely a technical limitation? We can 
expect improvement in the future?

>>>>The statusbar needs to be visibly seperated from other toolbars to
>>>>indicate it's presence. Also of great help would be a default status
>>>>message when no movie has been opened such as "No movie opened.".
>>>
>>>Statusbar look is controlled by kdelibs and your widget style, not by
>>>kaboodle.
>>
>>And a simple seperator?
> 
> Which will just result in a double separation for widget styles that 
> separate the status bar, no?

Ah. I see.

>>>And kaboodle is not just a movie player.
>>
>>"No media/file opened."? :)
> 
> Doesn't that just state the obvious though?

Ofcourse. But how are users to understand the empty space at the bottom 
of the window is a statusbar? Any application that I'm aware of has a 
default string displayed such as the above when action has yet to be 
taken. xmms, mplayer, totem, konqueror, kget, mozilla, kmail....

>>It really belongs in the status bar then, in a nice small font ;) It's
>>bad to be large the moment it starts looks awkward where as a smaller
>>font can do no harm and look more fitting.
> 
> But if I use a small font, then I think the whole thing will look 
> unbalanced.  The slider will overwhelm the time display.
> 

Actually, I was thinking on bringing that up too :)
I see the slider is also controlled by the used style. Simply size the 
slider to fit the width of the window and then it's up to the style to 
make it look right.

As it is currently unpractical to modify the video toolbar could you 
place the 'hide menubar' to the far right of the toolbar? Far from ideal 
  ofcourse, but it should be moved away from the navigational controls.
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