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List:       kde-bugs-dist
Subject:    [Bug 53682] usability: toolbar layout and buttons
From:       William Leese <yatsu () wanadoo ! nl>
Date:       2003-01-31 17:23:17
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http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53682     




------- Additional Comments From yatsu@wanadoo.nl  2003-01-31 18:22 -------
Subject: Re:  usability: toolbar layout and buttons

Neil Stevens wrote:
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> You reported the bug, or are watching the reporter.
>      
> http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53682     
>
>>Starting with the menu's. Taking a look at the "Edit" menu reveals not a
>>single entry that has anything to do with editing. I suggest using
>>"View" instead.
> 
> Well, there's at least one: Properties.  Properties is editable.  And the 
> bulk of edit *has* no standard menu place.  "Play" doesn't really fit 
> anywhere, so I figure edit is as good as any place.

File -> Properties? :)

>>Toolbars. The quit button needs to go because users do not expect it
>>there. More importantly the well known big "X" and File->Quit methods
>>are available for quiting the application.
> 
> You sure?  What about the people who hide menu bars? (see below)

I'm very, very sure on this one. Please remove this in favour of the 
traditional "X" which is available at all times except fullscreen mode.

>>Another oddity is the "Show/hide menubar" button. This is also
>>unexpected. How many people would want to remove the menubar when not in
>>fullscreen mode? If you want to retain this feature I'd suggest allowing
>>it to be activated through the suggested "View" menu and dynamically
>>adding/removing it from the "Video Toolbar"
> 
> It may not be unexpected to you, but it's certainly nice for those users 
> who accidentally hide the menubar.  Kaboodle is better where Konqueror 
> fails: making the menu bar easy to bring back.  Do you do user support?  
> How to bring back a hidden menu is a common user question.

Actually, I do. And you're right about unhiding the menubar. Then again 
people shouldn't hide menubars.. but I'll drop it.

> And no, the asnwer isn't to make the menu bar required to be present.  I 
> *have* had requests for the toggle, and in fact I've come to use it myself 
> in Noatun Excellent.  So it's staying.
> 
> And the answer isn't to dynamically hide and remove GUI elements.  Making 
> it so that the user doesn't know what will be in the toolbar when just 
> makes things harder on the user.

You're right. I can agree with not removing the functionality. How about 
moving it to the same toolbar as "Fullscreen" instead? This would 
somewhat minimize accidential clickage..

>>The statusbar needs to be visibly seperated from other toolbars to
>>indicate it's presence. Also of great help would be a default status
>>message when no movie has been opened such as "No movie opened.".
> 
> Statusbar look is controlled by kdelibs and your widget style, not by 
> kaboodle.

And a simple seperator?

> And kaboodle is not just a movie player.

"No media/file opened."? :)

> 
>>The timer font is rather large. You might want to consider using the
>>default font instead and increasing the size of the navigation bar
>>proportionally.
> 
> I could do that, but why is it bad to be large?  It's one of the very most 
> important things in the whole app.. the one bit of status information.

It really belongs in the status bar then, in a nice small font ;) It's 
bad to be large the moment it starts looks awkward where as a smaller 
font can do no harm and look more fitting.

>>Final suggestion: consolidate "Video Toolbar" and "Kaboodle Toolbar". No
>>need for a toolbar with only a single button. 
> 
> Technically impractical.  Video settings are controlled not by 
> kaboodlepart, but rather by KVideoWidget in libartskde.
> 
> For me to hide the KVideoWidget ones and add new ones in Kaboodle would be 
> a bug-prone duplication of UI.

This fits well with the move 'hide menubar' button to the same toolbar 
as the fullscreen button.

> Also, in the future, please make separate reports for separate issues, for 
> easier tracking of what's fixed, and to allow me to transfer other reports 
> to other products (like your dislike for the Show Menubar menu position).

Will do.

- wvl
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